IRIDAS vs. COLOR

[Charles Angus]

Are you joking or are you serious?

That was my thought, too...

 

[Alex Hastings]

I've been looking over at IRIDAS, since they're (as far as I know) the only Mac option out there. But which one would I chose?

SpeedGrade OnSet? Fairly cheap, works with RAW, but will it do the job like Color does, and how is the performance compared to Color? Primary in/out, secondaries, shaders alà Color FX room, custom masks?


Then there's SpeedGrade XR, very interesting piece of software, and I've checked the pricing - boy do I gotta get a load of jobs to get that baby even remotely close to home.



Where would you look? Better hardware? New software? Anything would help.

I think everyone should wait, the market is totally in a freefall right now, Speedgrade is just a grader, no tracking, no XML, no shape imports, no matt imports, no conform, no paint. As a grading tool its great, change color here now, thats all it can do, as a finishing tool, it doesn't have the chops. Its also a little pricey for just moving colors.

change color here now = iridas

 

[jake blackstone]

Thanks for your welcome and thanks for your questions. BMD policy is to discuss only formally announced or released features so while I cant report on the status of many of your questions I can say the feedback is very valuable as it helps us confirm the market requirements. We have a lot of projects under development and so I am confident you will soon see that BMD will continue to add features based on practical user needs.
Re the questions I can answer; we will support a number of third party panels for the Mac system and not only USB based. The Tangent Wave is just happens to be the first.
Resolve already permits multiple versions, multiple EDL's, and unlimited nodes. We have number of conform features inc ColorTrace which will save you hours of work moving grades from other jobs and other versions of projects.
Regarding new features released at NAB besides the GUI work - there were more than 20 shown and a few more added since then are also expected in the July shipment. A list of them is in the pipeline for formal release.
regards
Peter

Hello Peter.
Thank you for providing us with valuable information.
So, in light of the company policy, can you discuss features of the upcoming Resolve on the Mac, that are final?
Such as, does the Resolve on the Macbook Pro uses both available GPUs or just the NVIDIA? What kind of level of performance can one expect on Macbook Pro?
What is the expected release date for Resolve?
About versioning. I was wondering about an ability to create multiple versions of a grade of a single scene, such as director, agency, producer etc. versions.
Could you tell us a little about what kind of modifiers are available for grading? Such as film grade, video grade, keyers (what kind), shapes, HSL and RGB curves etc.? Is there an ability to do any kind of noise reduction or stabilization within Resolve?
BTW, now that you'd purchased DaVinci, IMHO, I think you could drop the Resolve name and go back to good old DaVinci. After all this, everyone still refers to the grading system as the Davinci and rarely Resolve.
Will there be Davinci presence at Cinegear?

 

[M Most]

Hello Peter.
About versioning. I was wondering about an ability to create multiple versions of a grade of a single scene, such as director, agency, producer etc. versions.
Could you tell us a little about what kind of modifiers are available for grading? Such as film grade, video grade, keyers (what kind), shapes, HSL and RGB curves etc.? Is there an ability to do any kind of noise reduction or stabilization within Resolve?

Jake, if you go to http://www.blackmagic-design.com/davinci/support/, you can download the manual and answer every one of those questions yourself. The software on both the Linux and Mac versions is in lock step, that has already been stated numerous times by various DaVinci representatives.

 

[jake blackstone]

Jake, if you go to http://www.blackmagic-design.com/davinci/support/, you can download the manual and answer every one of those questions yourself. The software on both the Linux and Mac versions is in lock step, that has already been stated numerous times by various DaVinci representatives.

Hi Mike.
The manual on the site is version 6 and not 7, as the Resolve on the Mac is.
Or I guess I just could wait for the release. It's not that far off.

 

[Peter Chamberlain]

DaVinci Resolve on Mac or Linux use either DeckLink HD Extreme 3 or 3D

Most other questions covered in old manual, thanks for the link mike.
Peter

 

[jake blackstone]

Most other questions covered in old manual, thanks for the link mike.
Peter

So, if that's is the case and the old manual also covers operation of the new version, then beside the new database foundation, can it be assumed, that V6 and V7 are mostly identical in all other respects?
Choosing color grading system is not a trivial matter. I'm trying to assess Resolve's capabilities and how it would fit into my existing workflow.
Presently, majority of existing Resolve users are career colorists, that over the years got used to workarounds and intricacies of various DaVinci products, combined with an incredible 24 hour tech support. Now it's all about to change.
Yes, $995 is an incredible game changer and great number of new users will be coming over from Color, which is effectively free. Admittedly, right now Color and FCP are hopelessly behind Resolve and Premiere in GPU technology. But what would happen, if Apple came out with the solution in June? Then FCP users would have an incentive to stay put, despite an allure of inexpensive Resolve. I know, to some it may sound ludicrous to compare the two, but many current Color users are pretty content with it's tool set. They may also decide to stay, simply because there would be almost no conform issues between FCP and Color and no steep learning curve to endure.
Or, what if FilmLight finally decided to release OS X version of Baselight on a desktop computer in addition to the existing Macbook Pro version, that they currently sell only to the Baselight owners for a $1k with a possible future upgrade path to the Linux version?
Obviously, all this is pure speculation on my part. Nevertheless, I personally, find it difficult to make an informed decision on a choice of color grading system with almost no public information, other than the operating manual, available. I hope this will change soon.

 

[shashbugu]

So, if that's is the case and the old manual also covers operation of the new version, then beside the new database foundation, can it be assumed, that V6 and V7 are mostly identical in all other respects?
Choosing color grading system is not a trivial matter. I'm trying to assess Resolve's capabilities and how it would fit into my existing workflow.
Presently, majority of existing Resolve users are career colorists, that over the years got used to workarounds and intricacies of various DaVinci products, combined with an incredible 24 hour tech support. Now it's all about to change.
Yes, $995 is an incredible game changer and great number of new users will be coming over from Color, which is effectively free. Admittedly, right now Color and FCP are hopelessly behind Resolve and Premiere in GPU technology. But what would happen, if Apple came out with the solution in June? Then FCP users would have an incentive to stay put, despite an allure of inexpensive Resolve. I know, to some it may sound ludicrous to compare the two, but many current Color users are pretty content with it's tool set. They may also decide to stay, simply because there would be almost no conform issues between FCP and Color and no steep learning curve to endure.
Or, what if FilmLight finally decided to release OS X version of Baselight on a desktop computer in addition to the existing Macbook Pro version, that they currently sell only to the Baselight owners for a $1k with a possible future upgrade path to the Linux version?
Obviously, all this is pure speculation on my part. Nevertheless, I personally, find it difficult to make an informed decision on a choice of color grading system with almost no public information, other than the operating manual, available. I hope this will change soon.

I agree with Jake, the silence from BM is really loud. I do commend you Peter for your presence on the forum.

Jake go to bed its late, you need to rest those eyes. LOL

Cheers

 

[Hans von Sonntag]

I think everyone should wait, the market is totally in a freefall right now, Speedgrade is just a grader, no tracking, no XML, no shape imports, no matt imports, no conform, no paint. As a grading tool its great, change color here now, thats all it can do, as a finishing tool, it doesn't have the chops. Its also a little pricey for just moving colors.

change color here now = iridas

Alex, I don't know where you have your knowledge but I recently conformed via EDL a project in SpeedGrade 2009. You also can use mattes within SpeedGrade. SpeedGrade 2010 will have a tracker.

Like with Scratch or Baselight SpeedGrade is primarily a grading tool. For TV-shows, features films and all projects that don't need complex VFX such tools are often sufficient for finishing.

Its also a little pricey for just moving colors.

Since it can do much more than "just" changing colours I find it worth every penny.

change color here now = iridas

I love it when people just from the hear-say put something down as "change color here now = iridas".

Hans

 

[jake blackstone]

I agree with Jake, the silence from BM is really loud. I do commend you Peter for your presence on the forum.

Jake go to bed its late, you need to rest those eyes. LOL

Cheers

Yes dad, I'm going to sleep:bigear:
I also applaud you Peter for your presence at this forum.
I'm not overly concerned, that every question is not being answered right away. Not discussing unreleased features is an understandable and widely accepted company policy.
I'm just hopeful, that BM will assume the marketing stance, that is closer to Red, than Apple, by interacting with customers and providing a meaningful company feedback, while disseminating a few morsels of information, even if it happens once in a while.
Red's provocative marketing delivers company philosophy very loud and clear - "Everything in life changes... including our camera specs and delivery dates...". Not many people complain, when delivery dates slip a little or some features get dropped. It would be interesting to see, if BM would follow Red's lead in creative and disruptive product marketing.

 

[craigjkharris]

Are you joking or are you serious?

He's totally serious!
The DaVinci on a MAC blows Apple Color out of the water. It does everything the full version of DaVinci does except for 2K, 3K, 4K and Stereoscopic. If you are finishing a project in HD then this is the bomb. If you are finishing for the screen then you need the Linux version or something like SpeedGrade / Scratch / Lustre etc.

 

[M Most]

He's totally serious!
The DaVinci on a MAC blows Apple Color out of the water.

Not if you've got a project that involves multiple video tracks.

Hans stated:

Like with Scratch or Baselight SpeedGrade is primarily a grading tool.

As someone who has used both extensively, I wouldn't call Scratch "primarily a grading tool." I would call it primarily a data management and conforming tool, with color tools added. I would call Baselight primarily a color corrector with conforming tools added. There are many, many seats of Scratch that are used almost exclusively for conforming and prep for projects being color graded on other systems. And there are many seats of Baselight that are never used for anything but grading, with the material being conformed on other systems (such as Scratch, Smoke, Nucoda, et. al.).

Only on RedUser do people seem to think of Scratch as "primarily a grading tool."

 

[Alex Hastings]

Alex, I don't know where you have your knowledge but I recently conformed via EDL a project in SpeedGrade 2009. You also can use mattes within SpeedGrade. SpeedGrade 2010 will have a tracker.

Like with Scratch or Baselight SpeedGrade is primarily a grading tool. For TV-shows, features films and all projects that don't need complex VFX such tools are often sufficient for finishing.



Since it can do much more than "just" changing colours I find it worth every penny.



I love it when people just from the hear-say put something down as "change color here now = iridas".

Hans

I have actually used SPEEDGRADE on a few jobs in our bid to buy it, sorry you took offense to my evaluation of the product, we almost bought the licenses, but we felt like it wasn't good enough for the price. It grades fine, but its not good for DI work or finishing. If you break down the prices of the complete DI/COLOR/CONFORM solutions from someone like NUCODA. You have to buy hardware, but the price of the software becomes a better deal. SPEEDGRADE is a great color grader, but that wasn't enough.

 

[shashbugu]

For some reason when people mention Scratch they, seam to undervalue its power. If your full time job is color correcting and finishing, hands down the best systems out there are Quantel, Baselight and Film-master. If you are full production filmmaker cut/color/conform, get a Scratch system. If you cut, visualfx, color and conform, then Smoke is a the tool to get.
I am not a smoke user or even a user of any of the above tools, but every post house I deal with usually have a smoke system in the corner that is pretty much the most versatile tool in the shed its just not as visually pleasing and organised as a Scratch system is.

 

[Hans von Sonntag]

I have actually used SPEEDGRADE on a few jobs in our bid to buy it, sorry you took offense to my evaluation of the product, we almost bought the licenses, but we felt like it wasn't good enough for the price.

Alex, no offense taken!

If friends of yours would build a fast station car and in a car forum someone would say something like "it's fast but has no trunk" you would chime in, wouldn't you?

It grades fine, but its not good for DI work or finishing. If you break down the prices of the complete DI/COLOR/CONFORM solutions from someone like NUCODA. You have to buy hardware, but the price of the software becomes a better deal. SPEEDGRADE is a great color grader, but that wasn't enough.

The great thing about SpeedGrade is the fact that it can run on any system and it eats almost every codec/picture sequence you can think of.

If you have a Mac Pro working station with FCP and whatnot, SpeedGrade would be a fine grading tool on this machine. If you were an Avid guy and run MC on a PC, just install SpeedGrade and off you go.

Off course Nvidia Quadro is recommended but it does work with cheaper nvidia cards. But you want decent graphics anyway.

Hans

 

[jake blackstone]

For some reason when people mention Scratch they, seam to undervalue its power. If your full time job is color correcting and finishing, hands down the best systems out there are Quantel, Baselight and Film-master. If you are full production filmmaker cut/color/conform, get a Scratch system. If you cut, visualfx, color and conform, then Smoke is a the tool to get.
I am not a smoke user or even a user of any of the above tools, but every post house I deal with usually have a smoke system in the corner that is pretty much the most versatile tool in the shed its just not as visually pleasing and organised as a Scratch system is.

Actually, you had neglected to mention the other two systems, that are part of that elite group- Lustre and Resolve. Company 3 and EFILM are pretty much at the top of the food chain in DI and they happened to use Resolve and Lustre respectively. Well, EFILM's Lustres are special case, but it's close enough for this argument...

 

[Hans von Sonntag]

I am not a smoke user or even a user of any of the above tools, but every post house I deal with usually have a smoke system in the corner that is pretty much the most versatile tool in the shed its just not as visually pleasing and organised as a Scratch system is.

I'm a Smoke user and, yes, it's very versatile. You don't have to hide in the corner of your boutique, on the contrary.

IMHO, Smoke on Mac is the biggest contender to the classic grading/finishing solutions. It's fast, very powerful in many means including editing, conforming, 3D compositing, text, painting and it's colour correcting tools are very good. For many projects it's a very meaningful solution for finishing because reconforming, versioning and archiving is as simple as it gets.

Maybe I'm biased but the Smoke's interface gives me a warm feeling reminding me of the times when Flame was the new star and Discreet the coolest company out there.

Hans

 

[jake blackstone]

I'm a Smoke user and, yes, it's very versatile. You don't have to hide in the corner of your boutique, on the contrary.

IMHO, Smoke on Mac is the biggest contender to the classic grading/finishing solutions. It's fast, very powerful in many means including editing, conforming, 3D compositing, text, painting and it's colour correcting tools are very good. For many projects it's a very meaningful solution for finishing because reconforming, versioning and archiving is as simple as it gets.

Maybe I'm biased but the Smoke's interface gives me a warm feeling reminding me of the times when Flame was the new star and Discreet the coolest company out there.

Hans

Smoke never was nor it will be the "biggest contender to the classic grading solutions". Grading anything beyond just a couple of shots with a pen or a mouse is a non starter. An ability to push or warp colors doesn't automatically make Smoke a "classic grading solution". Autodesk makes Lustre for a reason.

 

[shashbugu]

Actually, you had neglected to mention the other two systems, that are part of that elite group- Lustre and Resolve. Company 3 and EFILM are pretty much at the top of the food chain in DI and they happened to use Resolve and Lustre respectively. Well, EFILM's Lustres are special case, but it's close enough for this argument...

I am so sorry how could I forget Resolve and Lustre. Somebody smack me for this omission :banghead: (I am mad at BM for not yet releasing the Resolve Mac).

Quick question Jake, How would you rate Lustre vs Baselight, you have had experience with both?

 

[M Most]

Quick question Jake, How would you rate Lustre vs Baselight, you have had experience with both?

I'm not Jake, but I've had experience with all of these systems as well. "Lustre vs. Baselight" is a rather useless question because both (as well as Resolve, Film Master, Pablo, and Assimilate Scratch, for that matter) will do anything a colorist needs to do. There isn't any "either/or" other than personal preference and better integration with other tools you might already have or be planning to add. A competent colorist will get nearly identical results on any of these systems. Some features, screen displays, and control panels will appeal more to some than others, but functionally, at least in terms of grading tools, there's little difference.

Basically, what you're asking is more a facility issue than a colorist issue because the real differences between these systems are in workflow integration, format compatibility, native format support, and some other things that are relevant to a facility but not necessarily to a colorist (other than the native format support).