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Internet fraud with Red Camera's for sale

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Sep 26, 2012
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Location
Leiden, The Netherlands
There is a lot a internet fraud going on with fake ads on mutiple websites worldwide for Red One Camera's. Both M and MX.
This is a warning to prevent anybody to fall into these carefully and professional setup scams like i did. I consider myself a very
carefull person when it comes to online transactions. I found several Red equipment offers on ad sites worldwide en when showing interest sellers would
ask me to make payment on bank accounts which names did not match with the sellers names. Like accounts on womans names
in Greece. Fraud obviously. The sellers in Greece claimed that it was the bank account of the executive producers wife....
Sometimes these ads are translated with online translate services like Google translate and then placed on ad sites in the targeted country
and therefore translations with language errors but most of the time in English.

I recently found and ad for a Red One M with the following text on a Dutch ad website, it can also be found on several British sites.

"I've decided that its now time to sell my Red One camera,serial #4050
If you're looking at this listing then you probably know enough about the camera,its reputation
and capabilities.
In brief,it is a 4k single sensor digital cinema camera.
It shoots up to 30fps in 4k - 60fps at 3k - 120fps at 2k
It also shoots widescreen 2.40:1 in 4.5k resolution.
It uses standard V-Lock batteries,which are widely available"

I exchanged several email with the seller, a guy that called himself James Hill from Scotland. He seems to know a lot about the camera and provided me
with lots of photo's. After reaching an agreement i told him i don't just sent money overseas to people i don't know. He sent me a scan of his passport
to identify himself which matched his mail name as a proof of trust. I also checked the given Red serial with Red Europe but got an email back that such information is private and will not be given.

He had a perfect solution for a safe transaction, we would use FedEx Express Shipping, a service that would act as a neutral party for online transactions.
I would make payment of the total amount to FedEx, they would deliver the camera to me and i could inspect the package after deliver.
If i agreed that if everything was as as agreed i would release the funds and FedEx would pay the seller. This sounded safe to me and i agreed on this.

Then i got in invoice by email from FedEx, official mail layout logo etc with confirmation of everything and a bank account number in London
at Barclays Bank with the request to make payment. I did and transfered the money in the name of FedEx Express Shipping to the given account.

I replied to the mail with a copy of bank payment and asked for confirmation which i got by email two days later that i would be contacted when
the package would arrive in the Netherlands. I sent the seller an email that i had made payment on which he replied to thank me for my great
communication and ask me to let him know when the package has arrived. When after a week i did not receive anything i got i touch with the same
FedEx mail address. It bounced back as undeliverable and an error message that i had mailed a non existing mail address. Then all alarmbells went off.

I called the Dutch FedEx office. They knew nothing about this shipment and the trace number i had did not exist. The number combination was
something the did not use they told me. I called my bank to file a fraud report. They could not help me they said as i made payment myself and
reversing my payment was not possible. I asked why the standard name and number check as done by banks came up blank. As i made payment
in the name of FedEx how is it possible that the transaction went through to a bank account on another name? Which by the way was "blank" in the
transaction info.The bank told me that name-number checks are done at random and i just had bad luck. The James Hill seller name and email address
james4hill@gmail.com are probably fake or a case of identity theft I did mail him to confront him with all above but no answer offcourse.
I also called Red Europe again and to my surprise i did get the owner names on file for this camera this time. Offcourse no match with this seller who had
claimed to be the first and original owner.

If Red Europe would have given me the info i asked for before making payment this would not have happened. I do not understand why i did get
the requested information later on when it was too late. I lost a lot of money on this fraud so beware of Red offers like this. Don't fall for it like i did even
if it looks so solid.
 
Offcourse i did ask for transfer of ownership to all inquiries. Same response from all sellers: will be done after payment. Which is something
i would do too so this doesn't give any guaranties at all. Would you sell your Red and transfer ownership before payment has been received?
Transfer of ownership can only be requested by the current owner on file.
 
My process for selling my Scarlet was to start an ownership transfer at the same time as the sale & I asked for a small good faith deposit 1st and CC'd the new owner on the correspondance with the rep and once the camera was in Red's hands... I asked for buyer to make rest of payment and RED actually hang on to the release of the camera until I confirmed that funds were cleared.

Since this is an international offense... its hard to report it to the police, but you still have some other avenue to pursue this individual. Especially if you have his british passport scan, which may be a fake! Head to the british council and start a claim, chances are... he's done it before and local police may have a file somewhere.

- Another good policy is to skype with the seller and actually see the camera.
- Check if the have an imdb credit or a social media account and independently verify his identity.
- Use someone on the red forum to inspect it for you.
 
Offcourse i did ask for transfer of ownership to all inquiries. Same response from all sellers: will be done after payment. Which is something
i would do too so this doesn't give any guaranties at all. Would you sell your Red and transfer ownership before payment has been received?
Transfer of ownership can only be requested by the current owner on file.


-Ask to red who is the camera owner -
-Ask to the camera owner to ask to red to prepared the transfer
-pay after receive the mail from red that everything is clear.

Easy.
 
We do keep a database of all cameras reported stolen. If we get a hit, we report to last owner of record. Standard procedure is if someone asks us to confirm ownership, we will just say "yes, the name matches" or "no, it does not". We do not give out detailed info unless requested as part of an investigation by proper authorities.

If that is not how this case went down, then I will certainly make sure our team is reminded of standard operating procedure. My apologies,
BC
 
We do keep a database of all cameras reported stolen. If we get a hit, we report to last owner of record. Standard procedure is if someone asks us to confirm ownership, we will just say "yes, the name matches" or "no, it does not". We do not give out detailed info unless requested as part of an investigation by proper authorities.

If that is not how this case went down, then I will certainly make sure our team is reminded of standard operating procedure. My apologies,
BC

That's all very well as far as it goes, of course - but all it takes is for the criminal to determine the name of the real owner of a certain serial number (not too hard) and RDC can only reply 'yes the serial matches the name' - it's no proof whatever that the seller is who they claim to be!

And Zeno, I'm sorry this happened to you - but the huge red flag should have been when he asked you to pay 'via Fedex' for a 'safe transaction'. Fedex offer no such service AFAIK; they only deliver packages!

Frankly the only two ways I would sell a camera are:

1. to a VERY well-known REDuser, with a solid rep, or
2. face-to-face, in person, for cash, or in the bank after they had authenticated payment!

If I was in Scotland and the seller was in the Netherlands, I would invest a couple of hundred Euros on a plane ticket and go check the camera out and buy in person.

Mike
 
I wouldn't trust anything international, honestly. If you live in the US, go to the person..even if they live in Hawaii and you're in New York. Inspect the equipment, and if everything matches then give the payment in person and take the equipment right then and there. If they want to confirm that the check won't bounce, you can both go to the bank and they can make a deposit. Maybe I'm a bit paranoid, but I prefer to do everything in person.
 
Here is how paranoid I am. I live in San Diego Ca not to far from the border ,,, just sold a car an old Volvo XC90 to a guy who paid me in cash..$8000.00 in US bills... I asked him to go with me to the bank to have them check to make sure the bills were real. 2 out of all the $100 dollar bills were not real so he promptly replaced them from the stack in his pocket.. I guess what Im saying is sorry to hear about your deal gone bad but you can never really be sure even when your taking cash,, but you can do the best home work you can. And hope for the best.
 
Sorry about your bad luck. I had some seller on here who was schleppin' an Epic tell me that I was up to "something shady" by wanting to do an in-person, cash deal with him. He claimed that he was in Europe and his brother in the US was handing the transaction. He refused to do anything but a wire...not even a face-to-face cash deal by my flying there. Yeah, I just fell off the turnip wagon! :rant:
 
Fraud

Fraud

So Sorry this happened. The only sure way to do a transaction out of the country is either in person or by using Escrow.Com. They hold the funds in Escrow until you receive your equipment. Once you notify them of receipt, they release the funds to the seller. If someone is not willing to use an escrow company, something is fishy! It protects both the buyer and the seller
 
Really helps to see these stories so I remember to be more cautious. Thanks for posting your bad experiences so we dont have to learn the hard way.
 
International fraud surrounding the sale of RED ONEs is rampant right now and it is not just affecting buyers. I have been trying to sell my RED ONE MX #6910 on eBay for the past three weeks. The auctions are being tampered with by at least one if not multiple cooperating international bidders who are running up the price and then canceling at the last minute to leave a lower bid on a secondary buyer who trys to find various ways to get me to send them the camera without a secure payment. I have been selling on eBay for 12 years and have never been scammed, but people are trying harder to steal this RED ONE from me than any other item I've ever dealt with. I've got 550 completed sales on eBay with 100% positive feedback, I've been a member of the RED community since 2009, and my company 21st Century 3D operates in both New York and Los Angeles so legitimate buyers can rest assured they are dealing with a legitimate seller.
 
Hi everyone this is my first post on reduser :-) Don't even trust paypal, theres a scam going around at the moment on ebay in London not sure if its happening else where, where the
buyer pays you with Paypal and then come to your house to collect the item and then after collecting they reverse the payment and the card they use on paypal is sometimes stolen, paypal do not protect the seller this has happened to quiet a few people on ebay and if the card is stolen its the same thing paypal come looking for the money back,

So do trust paypal on less your 100% of the buyer, I lost a Canon 5d because I put my trust in there payment system, Paypal took the money back from me, the buyer was cheeky enough to call to the house and walk away with my camera if I had the money I'd sue paypal and ebay for facillating a buyer with a stolen card to purchase from me but I don't.

The issue is there is no protection for sellers on Paypal its a con along with scammers they have tons of red tape that allows them to walk away with out compensating you, even if you post and get it tracked you are still not protected trust me. so watch out everyone for that Scam


All the best
Norman
 
Hi everyone this is my first post on reduser :-) Don't even trust paypal, theres a scam going around at the moment on ebay in London not sure if its happening else where, where the
buyer pays you with Paypal and then come to your house to collect the item and then after collecting they reverse the payment and the card they use on paypal is sometimes stolen, paypal do not protect the seller this has happened to quiet a few people on ebay and if the card is stolen its the same thing paypal come looking for the money back,

So do trust paypal on less your 100% of the buyer, I lost a Canon 5d because I put my trust in there payment system, Paypal took the money back from me, the buyer was cheeky enough to call to the house and walk away with my camera if I had the money I'd sue paypal and ebay for facillating a buyer with a stolen card to purchase from me but I don't.

The issue is there is no protection for sellers on Paypal its a con along with scammers they have tons of red tape that allows them to walk away with out compensating you, even if you post and get it tracked you are still not protected trust me. so watch out everyone for that Scam


All the best
Norman

That's a scam but it's just as much a Paypal misfeature.

Best bet, I would say, is speed the money straight out of Paypal into your bank account the instant it arrives. They can't reverse *that*! Then they can go whistle for the money, and think harder about ways to prevent use of stolen or fraudulent cards.

Mike
 
Mike,

Even if you do that, paypal can pull the money out of your bank account. You need to make sure you are shipping to a VERIFIED address with pay pal, that's the only way they will back you up.

Interesting. As far as I knew, Paypal were operating as a money transfer service, not a bank - and they couldn't revoke a transfer any more than Western Union can. Perhaps they've changed.

Mike
 
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