Interesting take on HFR!

[Curt Pair]

I just found a cool article on HFR, and thought I'd share...

http://www.studiodaily.com/2012/12/why-120-fps-is-the-sweet-spot-for-hfr-shooting/

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

Good read, thanks for sharing.

Apart from the utterly ridiculous statement with "55 fps being a maximum of visual perception", some valid points were mentioned, including the compression factor.

 

[John Tissavary]

Good read, thanks for sharing.

Apart from the utterly ridiculous statement with "55 fps being a maximum of visual perception", some valid points were mentioned, including the compression factor.

It's not 'utterly' ridiculous, only very slightly

Research by Doug Trumbull actually measured biometric changes up to 70 fps or thereabouts, but none after that. That's why he picked 60 fps as the framerate for Showscan, which if you were fortunate enough to see firsthand was a truly remarkable format (65mm film at 60fps).

Disclaimer: I used to do work with / for Showscan. They're out of business now, so I don't think a disclaimer is required, but what the heck, right?

JT

 

[Kwan Khan]

Nice

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

It's not 'utterly' ridiculous, only very slightly

Research by Doug Trumbull actually measured biometric changes up to 70 fps or thereabouts, but none after that. That's why he picked 60 fps as the framerate for Showscan, which if you were fortunate enough to see firsthand was a truly remarkable format (65mm film at 60fps).

Disclaimer: I used to do work with / for Showscan. They're out of business now, so I don't think a disclaimer is required, but what the heck, right?

JT

Thank you for the input, appreciate it.
Excuse the adverb if it sounds inappropriate, from this standpoint it doesn't.


Regarding the mentioned biometric measurements of HFR responses, one might consider:

1) Acquisition & display technology available at the time, with its inherent limitations. One example - at the time, no tests were made at 120p or higher:

So we shot tests with 24, 36, 48, 60, 66, and 72 frames a second and showed these films in a laboratory to see if we could actually measure people’s physiological stimulation levels as a result of frame rate.

link

2) Whether the response curve to HFR is linear
3) Period of time required for development of particular sensory sensitivity


In addition...Doug Trumbull is working on Showscan Digital, shot on 120p.
Which would be pretty pointless if he believed it was indistinguishable from 60p.

In September this year in SMPTE NYC meeting, Douglas showcased HFR with variable frame rates.
I recall suggesting this notion roughly 6 years ago on these boards, or DVXuser, not sure.
I recall only a few reactions.

 

[Björn Benckert]

Hmm, nowhere in the article these guys mention that HFR is plain ugly... Where we not all very happy when video turned away from 50i to 25/24p...

I find all this High frame rate and 3D stuff just to be a really poor way of trying to protect films from being turned into "screeners" i.e handycam shot web copies from the theaters.

I much rather see a full 4k 24p Film where they spend the money on good acting, CG and beautifully imagery... Finishing a film in 120fps stereo is nuts I think, but thats maybe only me.

 

[Roger Valdes]

HFR Documentaries? Yes please!
HFR movies? Hell naw.

From what i have seen and heard about The Hobbit is that it looks horribly videoish in 48p

 

[John Tissavary]

Hmm, nowhere in the article these guys mention that HFR is plain ugly... Where we not all very happy when video turned away from 50i to 25/24p...

I find all this High frame rate and 3D stuff just to be a really poor way of trying to protect films from being turned into "screeners" i.e handycam shot web copies from the theaters.

I much rather see a full 4k 24p Film where they spend the money on good acting, CG and beautifully imagery... Finishing a film in 120fps stereo is nuts I think, but thats maybe only me.

It's not that bad if you think about the cost of finishing digital 2k at 24fps just 10 years ago! And look how inexpensive it is now, relatively speaking?

I love HFR. Just because we're used to seeing all the temporal artifacts of 24fps doesn't mean it's more beautiful. I believe it's just something we've all grown comfortable and familiar with.

Hrvoje: sounds interesting, and of course there are a ton of 120 capable dispays out there now, even 200+ LCD and Plasma TVs. Wasn't aware Mr. Trumbull was putting together digital Showscan. Very interesting. And not that I consider studies the end-all-be-all of truth, but have there been any done on humans and 120fps+? I've been out of the special venue thing for quite a long time now, but as you mention, display and playback technology is so different now that I think once the industry becomes more comfortable with digital manufacturing and distribution, 'standards' will become less and less restricting, and 'special' venue will be a day-to-day thing in every home, movie theater, and other screening place.

Variable frame-rate... I love it from a possibilities standpoint, but I shudder to think about mastering that!

John