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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Inclino / Impero VS Birger VS Manual FF

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HD Hildebrand

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Okay, I know these are 2 very different beasts, but it seems to be breaking down to Inclino/Impero VS Birger VS Manual Follow Focus situation.

Here's how it breaks down:

Yes, I am one of the few who has a Birger confirmation, but my goal is Nikon glass and who knows how long that will take (or the Canon version for that matter).

Birger would allow control over "G" lenses.

Question is, how noisy will the stepper motors within the lens be for follow focus with Birger?

Birger will not be able to control manual primes (for wireless work).

Would need 2nd follow focus for manual lenses, preventing me from being lean and mobile.

With the Inclino/Impero I will have wireless on all lenses I use.

Inclino/Impero will need manual iris (capable) lenses. Which is good when I'm swapping out with DSLR (for I'll need manual iris for timelapse with DSLR). This would mean I don't need duplicate lenses.

Guess the only reason I'm still holding out hope for Birger would be iris control over the G lenses.

Both of these draw more battery power and more potential electronics to break down. Maybe good old manual capabilities across the board is worth consideration.
 
I'm early on the Birger list and really like the idea of a small, cheap wireless unit and the potential of Image Stabilization on Canon lenses.

But I decided to buy one of Curt's units when I saw the pricing and that wireless was included. I had anticipated it would be more expensive and that I would have my Birger long before it came out so I never followed it. I may bail out of my Birger reservation now. Or not.

Birger has missed their targets by many months with little communication. Remember shipping Dec 14th? It's been in two weeks every two weeks since then. I've never seen one work. No demo video or anything. Then his last post documents so many variables that all could go wrong it's hard to know when he'll really ship. Curt's got a video online showing at least basic functionality.

Curt took my phone call, answered my questions WHILE his website wasn't taking VISA's. Birger doesn't want phone calls. Is that going to change when your unit breaks?

Curt is saying late May for his units. Birger should beat that... BUT

Nikon mounts from RED look really close to shipping now and I have lenses.

With Curt's solution I can put literally any manual and most AF Nikon mount lenses ever made on the camera. That's a lotta lenses to choose from. P&S has a bunch of mounts coming. Doug Underdahl started on a Leica mount for RED. Don't forget your stock PL mount. So now that's a TON of lenses that would work with Impero.

But you can't use non-aperture lenses either from Nikon or Canon with Impero. You're going to need a Birger for that.

I don't have any Canon's at the moment. The really good L series stuff is very expensive. There seems to be a pretty limited selection of lenses that will actually work with the Birger. I've already got 6 Nikon lenses sitting here that will all work with Inclino if I put a gear on them.

I can back up Impero with a cheap RedRock in case of Impero failure. If Birger fails that aperture issue would suck.

So it comes down to what lenses you want to use. If you have a favorite that doesn't have an aperture ring then you're Birger. Anything else I'm thinking Curt's is the more flexible way to go.
 
Interesting thoughts.
How does the Inclino/Impero manage with AF lenses that have a short focus throw? That could also be a determining factor, especially if you want to use really wide lenses which are only available in AF.
 
Steven-Marc said:
Interesting thoughts.
How does the Inclino/Impero manage with AF lenses that have a short focus throw? That could also be a determining factor, especially if you want to use really wide lenses which are only available in AF.
Click to expand...

Not sure if you mean auto focus. Don't they all have some sort of ability to manual focus? Perhaps you are talking about Nikon G lenses (or Canon) that "only have camera controlled iris" - they don't have a manual iris ring. These lenses won't work on the Nikon "dumb" mount. You would need the Birger for that.
 
Steven-Marc said:
Interesting thoughts.
How does the Inclino/Impero manage with AF lenses that have a short focus throw? That could also be a determining factor, especially if you want to use really wide lenses which are only available in AF.
Click to expand...

Impero can calibrate to any lens. I assume the Birger can too. Theoretically, both should work fine. But neither have been tested that way so no one can say for sure.

The thing about really wide lenses is they have very deep DOF. I don't know how much rack focusing you're going to get into when 4 feet to infinity is all in focus.
 
I'll always have a manual FF on the job just in case, but VF has my support all the way! They very much follow Reds philosophy when it comes to dealing with customers.
 
joelnet said:
Put hard stops on the Impero. Wouldn't that solve that?
Click to expand...

Sounds logical, though I was just thinking of their youtube video where it self-sets it's end points on the lens. Just not sure how that works on the 17-35mm and the Impero.

Koa M. Stone said:
I'll always have a manual FF on the job just in case, but VF has my support all the way! They very much follow Reds philosophy when it comes to dealing with customers.
Click to expand...

Yes, VF's connection with the customer is very much appreciated.

Manual FF on the job is great, my concern is keeping light and mobile. Doubling up on gear doesn't help with that, but hear what you're saying.
 
planetearth said:
Sounds logical, though I was just thinking of their youtube video where it self-sets it's end points on the lens. Just not sure how that works on the 17-35mm and the Impero.
Click to expand...


I just watched that video again. Good point. That does look like a potential issue. One hack would be to add some kind of obstruction to the gear that's on the lens so Impero thought it was hitting a hard stop. I'll email Curt and see if he's thought about that. It looks like the unit has changed a lot since that video though.
 
OK - I emailed Curt and he got back to me very quickly.


Q) Some newer SLR lenses don't have hard stops. Can Impero be calibrated to them?
A) Yes, You can override the calibration requirement and set the stops manually using the lens range feature.

Q) Also, many autofocus lenses have small throws for focus. It is possible to change the ratio of hand travel to lens travel, right?
A) Yes, you can expand a limited lens range to fill the entire range of the control knob by using the lens range function as well.


Q) Other times the amount of travel for a big rack focus is more than a revolution of hand travel - so it's very hard to do. You want the ratio to change in the opposite direction.
A)Works the other way by using the knob range funtion... it limits the range of the knob to a given amount so you only need to move maybe 90 degrees instead of 360. This results in some loss of resolution so if you make the knob range too small you will see some undesirable effects.


FYI: Viewfactor has a forum:
http://www.viewfactor.net/forum/
 
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