Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

In the market for a 4k camera at NAB2015

shashbugu

shashbugu

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 9, 2007
Messages
1,542
Reaction score
0
Points
36
I'm in the market for new 4k camera with great color fidelity a straight to edit codec, and decent DR, sadly the only cameras announced so far that tickle my fancy are the Canon c300MKII and the Red Weapon. NAB just started so I must have patience. My budget is $40,000 with all accessories
1. The $5k BlackMagic with a 4.6k sensor and 15 stops rolling shutter sounds very cool
2. The Panasonic MFT 4k is certainly not for me at least not right now, although I think Sony has many better offerings than that camera in that market range.
3. The Sony with 3 4k chips camera is way out of my educational and professional expertise
4. The JVC 4k camera............."...."...
5: Alexa Mini with uprezzed 4k is a rentals market camera
6 Alexa SXT Rental market cam. I was hoping they would announce a real 4k camera. (Not that I'll buy it anyway)
7. The Panasonic Varicam, awesome camera, awesome images, Prores, but sadly out of my price range.
8. Red Weapon Magnesium body, looks very interesting especially with in Camera scaled Prores and better everything than the current dragon. (Even though I've never used the current dragon). I was hoping it would be about $35k wth all needed accessories. I have to reconfigure pricing matrix it once the site is fully up and running. It's a modular camera which is great, but too many modules announced. I have to catch up to learn what they all do and why they couldn't be sold as a package for $29,000. I'm afraid Red is pricing itself out of the owner/ operator market, or even indie filmmaker market it once helped spawn. My wife had a heart attacki
when I explained to her the Arri Alexa plus and lenses would cost more than our all our cars put together. Luckily it paid off Big Time. Thank you Roger Deakins and Skyfall, all my clients saw that movie. This Red Weapon would be a camera I would like.... We wait to see.

9. Red weapon carbon... Rental market big budget cam
10. Current Red Dragon I wish they would have at least given their super loyal customers an upgrade path to Prores.
11. I didn't really hear about a Red Scarlet Weapon. Now that with Scaled Prores with have been the most disruptive camera at NAB
12. Where is the C500 MarkII?
13. The Sony FS7.... No comment
14. With the number used of Sony F55s I see for sale everywhere, I'm really tempted, really really tempted to get it. It ticks all my boxes and is continuously being upgraded.
15. Canon C300mkII. I already own the EoS line and an odyssey 7Q (which sucks at Prores capture by the way). I could invest in some more EoS lenses and a Gold Apple watch to have some extra swag when I'm shooting.
16. I could buy a few more knockoff like-Arri M40's and M18"s, plus the the new L7c and L10C led fresnels
17. or I could wait for 2016 NAB by which time I would have double my equipment savings to purchase and Alexa mini 6k or Varicam Junior

Well this is just the first day of NAB there's plenty more to see.
Wish me luck
 
Thanks Mark, great kit, but I don't do Raw just Prores or a Slightly compressed codec
 
Any links for the Sony or JVC cameras you talk about Shashbugu?
 
For $40K, don't buy -- just rent a package when you need it. The lenses alone will cost far more than $40,000, regardless of what camera you wind up with. PL-mount lenses and lighting gear are often good investments, since those don't go obsolete with new technology.
 
Marc, buying can still make a lot of sense in at least two instances:

a) having a nice camera (such as a C300mk2 or ALEXA Mini, or whatever the hell is appropriate for where you're working at), if you can quickly cover the purchase of it via saved rental costs

b) it is a cheaper camera that in the previous option, but is for "ultra low / no budget" affairs, or for personal projects. As I believe a person should always own some form of camera, keeps you sharp and constantly practicing. Even if it is just a Panasonic GH4 / Sony A7s / Samsung NX1 / BMPCC kind of thing with a couple of lenses.
 
The C300 Mk II, Alexa Mini (and Amira), and Red Weapon all look nice. Although the C300 Mk II sample movie looks awful.

It all depends on in you're selling your work based on what you shoot and post or based on what your client wants. Alexa has the advantage of backward compatibility..... Dragon and MX intercutting is trickier and Canon shot itself in the foot not giving the C300 Mk II XF cam 50MBPs, though it looks like they have similar options.

I like Canon because you're basically set with just the camera body and they rent really well and do most of the work for you. I know others hate them for the same reason. No best choice for one person. All about your needs and what your clients demand. Always think in terms of money as a pro, what you like most as a hobbyist.
 
Weapon seems to solve:
- vents issue
- blackshading issue
- DTE codec limitation (Prores)
- EVF connector issue
- I/O optimization
Plus it offers 3DLUT support, all together making it a very capable non-raw dependent camera and a serious contender to Alexa, with a very wide range of usages. It is a next-gen Red camera, solving many issues Epic was avoided on sets for. If you want to cover high-end that might a good choice.


Little Dipper looks like an interesting option with very good specs. Support, availability and quirks are yet to be seen. That is a $7K camera and shooting with it will drain more $ for 4.6K 3:1 RAW and 1TB/h Prores. But you have 2K Prores as well. But no 3DLUTs. Also no NDs. On paper the imaging potential is there. Body form factor seems practical and functional, unlike all previous BM cameras. Product design seems cool. Apart from the dumb side center mounted hand grip, offering support if you suddenly feel sick next to the tripod and have to grab a hold of something, while lurking to bust a wrist when you don't look. Make sure you have your hair done and proper shoes when you shoot.


JVC is a cool and very affordable S35 4K option but doesn't have production level on-board codec. For 4K. For HD it has broadcast worthy 50 Mb/s 8 bit 4:2:2. But it does have uncompressed output. For UHD as well. That's a 12 stop camera and if you are used to Alexa DR, that won't cut it. It is the most portable and affordable S35 4K properly designed video camera, though. With on-board picture control, built in NDs and variable sensor mapping to fit different lens.


C300 Mk2 is likely to beat Alexa in Low light with DR which should be on the same level. Its codec is very likely designed to be visually lossless. 410Mb/s 10 bit 4:2:2 is not a ball and chain for run n' gun, or on-set backup. NDs built in. High profile 12 bit 4:4:4 2K h.264 should be pretty good for grading. Canon knows color. That demo film was a poor choice to display it. C100Mk2 has rolling shutter solved. Shutter and its motion aesthetic (filmic vs video) is yet to be seen. Not a camera designed for feature films but usable there as well.
 
I got the Sony FS7 as a sidekick to our Epic and Dragon. I won´t be going weapon yet. The Sony is easier to rent out than our REDs. The C300 I had was also very easy to rent out, but I hated the form factor and no 4K or HFR.
I (still) have a harder time convincing tv producers to go for RED, but I use it on TVCs and things we produce ourselves..
It´s no right camera (as we all know), so I found it important to try to get the right mix. The way I work renting a RED would never be an option, as I shoot a lot of stuff on the spot, or things we sell at a later stage. Owning the camera is great for us, but the Weapon upgrade is a bit steep at the moment and the REDs we have are still great cameras.
 
Found the JVC stuff, from last year, p30 max, not good enough. Thanks Guys.
 
I like the BM cameras, nobody else seems to agree with me on that. Uncompressed when wanted and proress when needed. If I was to buy a low cost 4k camera I would probably buy a BM URSA or a RED one MX.
 
David Peterson said:
Marc, buying can still make a lot of sense in at least two instances:

a) having a nice camera (such as a C300mk2 or ALEXA Mini, or whatever the hell is appropriate for where you're working at), if you can quickly cover the purchase of it via saved rental costs

b) it is a cheaper camera that in the previous option, but is for "ultra low / no budget" affairs, or for personal projects. As I believe a person should always own some form of camera, keeps you sharp and constantly practicing. Even if it is just a Panasonic GH4 / Sony A7s / Samsung NX1 / BMPCC kind of thing with a couple of lenses.
Click to expand...

This is very true, its always good to have a better than average low cost camera at hand like BM Ursa-Mini.
 
Björn Benckert said:
I like the BM cameras, nobody else seems to agree with me on that. Uncompressed when wanted and proress when needed. If I was to buy a low cost 4k camera I would probably buy a BM URSA or a RED one MX.
Click to expand...

Bjorn You know I love you, I've already made up my mind to buy the Ursa-Mini blind, its the most straight forward camera with a mind of its own. It ticks more boxes than any others camera announced Specs-wise. it is however short on Iso specs, low light specs etc.I can't get any clarity on whether the mounts are interchangeable buy the user or not. They have decided not to speak much about those issues. But the DR in promo video they have is simply very very interesting.
Anyway I'm buying the BM Ursa-Mini with assist, shoulder kit and EvF and I'm also buying a C300MKII. I already have all the accessories plates, lenses, monitors.
 
The mounts are not interchangeable, I've seen nothing to suggest they are. (Which is a pity, I really really want a m4/3 mount!!! JVC has proven it can work for Super 35mm)

Which URSA Mini are you getting? The old 4K or the new 4.6K?

I want the new sensor, but could only at a stretch afford the $3k priced one.... ah well, perhaps next year after they've gone on sale and I've earned more!
 
David Peterson said:
The mounts are not interchangeable, I've seen nothing to suggest they are. (Which is a pity, I really really want a m4/3 mount!!! JVC has proven it can work for Super 35mm)

Which URSA Mini are you getting? The old 4K or the new 4.6K?

I want the new sensor, but could only at a stretch afford the $3k priced one.... ah well, perhaps next year after they've gone on sale and I've earned more!
Click to expand...

Lol David, definitely the 4.6 one > I own a BMC4k. That sensor was not their best. You should have patience many will be on the market ursamini's will be on the market once its released. Black magic is notorious for long delay times.
 
shashbugu said:
Lol David, definitely the 4.6 one > I own a BMC4k. That sensor was not their best.
Click to expand...

You are very kind.

You should have patience many will be on the market ursamini's will be on the market once its released. Black magic is notorious for long delay times.
Click to expand...

P...L...U...S O...N...[wait ... for ... ... it ... ... ... ... [ ... ... ... ... ... ] [ ... ... ] [ ... ... ... ] ... .. . .. . ...... ] E!
 
Maybe I will July a mini 4k when they drop it to $2k for sake :). (I doubt it, but if they drop the 4.6k by a couple of k that would be good. As people say lifting out gets you too $7.5k-$10k before other new post post production equipment etc and maybe lens? But I would fit out cheaper ygsn that. But if you are going into hock for something, its good to know its something you wont want to sell to buy a new camera for a long times, unlike every Red up till dragon. Dragon was the keeper, and now it us just a bit better, in the zone. Whites the fixed scarlet weapon mini (the Red DVX, no not the Panasonic Red colored one, but an actual one made by Red, and that is not a DVX made by Red but a Red .....you get it :) ).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top