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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

IMS news please

Martin Weiss said:
Sanjin, do you know if a Voigtländer LTM lens can be used with IMS?
Click to expand...

Martin,

Yes, Voigtländer LTM lenses are

"FULLY Compatible with Leica M cameras by adding the Leica designed screw mount to M bayonet mount adapter."

LINK>>>

adaptltm.jpg

Voigtlander Leica Screw Mount to Leica M Bayonet Adapters

LINK>>>
 
Now I got it - now I understand where the problem is… P+S ignores in their assembly instructions the i-cable totally. No word about it… This seems to me also not the correct way to deal with it… On the other side, it shouldn’t be that hard to find a place for the i-cable.
Is really a slot to tuck the wires needed? Since the IMS is a fine adapter ring this will probably be hard to accomplish… surly there are easier ways… maybe it would work if you just tape the cable safely to the mount or the camera front…

Now, who is telling P+S hat they have to come up with something?
Maybe Sanjin, he has the best contact to them… since he is the official BETA tester…
 
Burger,

storing of RED's i/cable during IMS installation process is described here by P+S Technik.

Those pictures were already shawn here at the forum (search for a link).

icable_storage_01.jpg

icable_storage_02.jpg
 
Don’t found the link… but thanks for the pictures... Did you make them? These pictures are surly not part of the official assembly instructions… Hm… is this the problem… I’m confused…
 
Well I guess the problem from Red's point of view is that there is no cut out on the IMS to accommodate the cable and connector. From P+S's point of view, they don't think they need one as you can tuck it into the Red body - obviously possible although not neat, and you may lose the connector inside the body.

What's clear is that Red or P+S, or both, need to talk to each other more about a way forward, although as the third party accessory manufacturer P+S probably has to be the one to move.
 
Burger said:
Don’t found the link… but thanks for the pictures... Did you make them? These pictures are surly not part of the official assembly instructions… Hm… is this the problem… I’m confused…
Click to expand...

Burger,

I've got them from P+ST via email on the pdf as a part of the IMS installation instruction.
 
ericyoung said:
Well I guess the problem from Red's point of view is that there is no cut out on the IMS to accommodate the cable and connector. From P+S's point of view, they don't think they need one as you can tuck it into the Red body - obviously possible although not neat, and you may lose the connector inside the body.
Click to expand...

You may lose the connector inside the body – that’s what I thought too. But again there should be a easily way to fix this… I could think of some kind of P+S made plastic-rubber dell-nob that fits exact in the hole of the Red body where the cable comes out. Come on – that can’t be that hard…

I just called P+S at the phone again… they say it is all up to RED to tell them, what has to be done. They say they haven’t got a response after the last email they send… dead communication

Let’s communicate again…
Since I’m in Europe and my English isn’t that good, maybe someone in the US could call RED and try to get an official statement from them…
 
The more I read in this thread, the more it sounds like an ego issue between the two parties, not thinking in the best interest of their customers.

Am I wrong?

Another possibility is that RED is in secret talk with P+S to buy out the IMS arm of their business and integrate it into the RED offerings in the future. Or RED is secretly developing something similar to satisfy their crying users at even lower cost than IMS since there is no patents involved nor is it a rocket science.

I wish...
 
AIO Films said:
The more I read in this thread, the more it sounds like an ego issue between the two parties, not thinking in the best interest of their customers.

Am I wrong?

Another possibility is that RED is in secret talk with P+S to buy out the IMS arm of their business and integrate it into the RED offerings in the future. Or RED is secretly developing something similar to satisfy their crying users at even lower cost than IMS since there is not patent involved nor is it a rocket science.

I wash...
Click to expand...

Interesting thoughts – you could be quid right there.
Maybe RED also has not that much interested that reduser us no PL lenses with their camera… don’t now. Saying that… Jarred hat stated several times here in the forum that RED likes the IMS… but….


We costumers are left in the dark… no good… quid bad… ego issue… will not pay after all!
 
Burger said:
I just called P+S at the phone again… they say it is all up to RED to tell them, what has to be done. They say they haven’t got a response after the last email they send… dead communication
Click to expand...

Hey Burger, great job following up on this! Would it maybe be possible for you to call P&S again and suggest they phone Jarred directly? Email can be very impersonal as well as easy to miss/get lost. But if they phoned and had an actual conversation, I'll bet they could work it out very quickly.

All the best,

Jim
 
Mayby RED could offer a service for fee for installing the IMS front standard. That way their optical man could check for mount parallelism etc. Thus avoiding the warrenty problem.
 
But Red say the design itself is flawed, not just the risk of installing it incorrectly.

Bizarre situation to say the least.

If Red were to say THE IMS MOUNT WILL NEVER BE APPROVED then I would just move on.

But it sounds like there is a solution available if P&S would make a stronger effort to get in touch.

I'm starting to think this is the problem. P&S plowed through the entrire development without speaking to Red at all, then just sent in the mount and a couple of emails? Not a good way to start a relationship built on respect.

P&S need to reapproach Red and start over with proper communication and respect.

Just my thoughts in the absence of real info!
 
jimhare said:
Hey Burger, great job following up on this! Would it maybe be possible for you to call P&S again and suggest they phone Jarred directly? Email can be very impersonal as well as easy to miss/get lost. But if they phoned and had an actual conversation, I'll bet they could work it out very quickly.
Click to expand...

I made this suggestion in my phone call already… They said: They know how they have to communicate… ba ba ba...

So I think you are a bit right; they could have tried harder to clear the situation… As AIO Films said: ego issues… and we are suffering…
 
jimhare said:
Red say the design itself is flawed
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Do you have a source for that? As I have to decide which mount to go for, I'd like to know about any flaws that Red is aware of. So far I thought the only concern was the iPin cambe thing -- which might get resolved with the new audio board anyway?
 
Martin Weiss said:
Do you have a source for that? As I have to decide which mount to go for, I'd like to know about any flaws that Red is aware of. So far I thought the only concern was the iPin cambe thing -- which might get resolved with the new audio board anyway?
Click to expand...

Only that Jarred said the IMS mount requires the i-cable to be cut off. P&S say it doesn't and that's where the conversation ended. No follow up from either side.

That's my understanding anyway. Someone please add info if I don't have it right.

Would love to think that the new audio board/i-cable implementation changes all that but I would have thought there would be an announcement by now.
 
Burger said:
I made this suggestion in my phone call already… They said: They know how they have to communicate… ba ba ba...

So I think you are a bit right; they could have tried harder to clear the situation… As AIO Films said: ego issues… and we are suffering…
Click to expand...

ba ba ba indeed! :biggrin: I guess all the jumping up and down in the world isn't going to change things... :ranting2:
 
jimhare said:
Only that Jarred said the IMS mount requires the i-cable to be cut off. P&S say it doesn't and that's where the conversation ended. No follow up from either side.
Click to expand...
When I spoke to a friendly guy at the IBC he said that P+S had sent a mount to RED. When RED voiced worries about having to cut off that iCable, they sent some photographs, showing that the cable would indeed not be damaged (I can only guess that those were the same as the ones Sanjin posted a few posts back). Since then they have not heard from RED.

If that should indeed be true, it would surprise me; RED comes across as a very good communicator. Birger did its best to communicate poorly with RED, still they got the green light after heavy pleading from the Red community. P+S seems more forward with info and changes (not to mention that they actually are shipping). P+S seemed open about working with Birger, but Birger came across as showing the cold shoulder. IMS should be a great solution for all RED One owners, as it frees up new possibilities in lenses...

Would be a pity (and big loss to the Red movement) if IMS was crippled because of some misunderstanding.

Is there anything we can do to help alleviate this situation?

Chocolate for Jarred? Nobel price for Sanjin?

Would love to have this situation resolved before shipment of our Red in November.
 
Here's (FYI) P+S' press release announcing their change in design for the IMS mount. Sounds as though the installation procedure is comparable to that of the RED Nikon mount?
24th June 2008
For Immediate Release
Final version of P+S Technik IMS Mount for RED One available for purchase
We are happy to inform you about the latest news regarding our Interchangeable Mount System (IMS) for RED One. To implement the IMS on the RED One is much easier than expected in the beginning. The replacement of the whole RED front is not needed anymore. Only the original RED mount needs to be replaced by the P+S Technik IMS, no modification to the camera housing has to be done and no cables need to be cut. If needed the IMS can also be re-exchanged to the original RED One mount, if you do not cut the /i link cable. The thermically characteristics of the RED One front will stay the same after this IMS modification. The simplicity of this exchange makes the shipping the RED One to P+S Technik unnecessary. It can be done by everybody with a technical basic understanding. Consequently we could lower the mentioned price. The article number is 24209.

Shims to collimate the IMS will be included in delivery as well as an instruction. Different mounts you might need have to be ordered separately. The following lens mounts can be used with the P+S Technik Interchangeable Mount System on the RED camera: Arri PL Mount, Panavision Mount, BNC-R Mount, Professional F-Mount, Nikon F-Mount, Canon EF-Mount, Canon FD-Mount, Contax Mount, Leica-R Mount and Leica-M Mount.
Also the C-Mount can be used, but due to the lenses design for 2/3“ chips, they project only a picture of 2/3” size. For order information of the IMS Lens Mounts read more >
The Interchangeable Mount System will allow you to use:
- all available IMS Mounts from P+S Technik,
- optical viewfinder with PL mount (coming end of this year)
- Field Collimator (coming end of this year)
If you want to receive your already reserved IMS for RED please send us an order for the article number 24209. The expected delivery time will be 2 weeks. Please do not hesitate to contact me if you have any further questions.
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