- - - Image Quality - Raven vs Scarlet?

[Daniel S]

Hey guys! i would like to know from the Red Vets here if the Raven would be a better choice for a new red shooter? i am not the type of guy who must buy the new gear that comes out i just want the best bang for the buck. And i would love to be able to shoot 2k/4k slomo 60/120fps for music videos. The raven is tempting but its the level entry Red is it really worth it vs buying a used Scarlet?

Thanks guys!

 

[Matthew Quinn]

yah well the scarlet MX will shoot max frame rate of 30 fps in 4k. in my honest opinion bite the bullet and go for the raven man

 

[M.Halsell]

Raven. The new price points have reduced the cost of ownership. With the upside of having sensor parity.

 

[PatrickFaith]

Pixel to Pixel, weapon pixels are superior to the mx pixels. For 1080p slomo weapon will be solid shooting with a 2k frame, while mx will be iffy at 3k. I don't think of Raven as a entry level camera, it's more of a camera optimized for a specific job - and that optimization reduced the price point of the raven. Also it's all the side stuff that really adds up on a scarlet-mx, so if you do go scarlet-mx make sure to get all the pieces you need used otherwise a working configuration of a mx-scarlet can be more then a raven.

 

[Michael Tiemann]

I've had a Weapon CF since December. I also have an EPIC DRAGON (which will be going to RED for a WEAPON upgrade on Monday) and SCARLET DRAGON (which will be going to RED for a WEAPON upgrade when its number is called). Based on my experience with the DSMC2 and DSMC camera platforms, I would say that RAVEN is 2x the camera that SCARLET DRAGON is for 1/2 the price. I say this because despite the fact that SCARLET DRAGON shoots 5K vs. 4K for RAVEN (4.5K if you shoot WS), the DRAGON sensor has better performance in the DSMC2 body then it ever did in the DSMC body, and because RAVEN has 2x the data rate that SCARLET DRAGON offers. That 2x data rate is really my basis for claiming "2x the camera". But I think it's valid.

You say you want to shoot music videos, which screams to me "lightweight cameras on gimbals with lots of slo-mo". RAVEN checks both of those boxes harder than SCARLET DRAGON.

Now, if you were shooting productions that really require PL lenses, then there's no question that SCARLET trumps RAVEN. The new SCARLET-W offers the same 140MB/sec that RAVEN offers, but with PL lens mounts, and of course, a slightly larger sensor, which can be very helpful for reframing while retaining resolution. In that context, the question would be whether you could find a used SCARLET DRAGON for a price commensurate with the current price/performance of SCARLET-W.

But given you care about slo-mo, and given that you likely will be living in the EF lens world (smaller, lightweight, much less expensive than PL glass typically), then RAVEN is a fantastic entry point.

 

[Brian Merlen]

Dsmc1 prices are low but dsmc2 capabilities are so great I think people are hard pressed in these choices. I like PL as an option personally though which pushes me toward scarlet more so regardless

 

[shashbugu]

I've had a Weapon CF since December. I also have an EPIC DRAGON (which will be going to RED for a WEAPON upgrade on Monday) and SCARLET DRAGON (which will be going to RED for a WEAPON upgrade when its number is called). Based on my experience with the DSMC2 and DSMC camera platforms, I would say that RAVEN is 2x the camera that SCARLET DRAGON is for 1/2 the price. I say this because despite the fact that SCARLET DRAGON shoots 5K vs. 4K for RAVEN (4.5K if you shoot WS), the DRAGON sensor has better performance in the DSMC2 body then it ever did in the DSMC body, and because RAVEN has 2x the data rate that SCARLET DRAGON offers. That 2x data rate is really my basis for claiming "2x the camera". But I think it's valid.

You say you want to shoot music videos, which screams to me "lightweight cameras on gimbals with lots of slo-mo". RAVEN checks both of those boxes harder than SCARLET DRAGON.

Now, if you were shooting productions that really require PL lenses, then there's no question that SCARLET trumps RAVEN. The new SCARLET-W offers the same 140MB/sec that RAVEN offers, but with PL lens mounts, and of course, a slightly larger sensor, which can be very helpful for reframing while retaining resolution. In that context, the question would be whether you could find a used SCARLET DRAGON for a price commensurate with the current price/performance of SCARLET-W.

But given you care about slo-mo, and given that you likely will be living in the EF lens world (smaller, lightweight, much less expensive than PL glass typically), then RAVEN is a fantastic entry point.

Excellent Answer. That really helped. Thanks

 

[Carey Lee Coffey]

Raven if you're using EF glass. Get FOOL CONTROL to control the camera and pull focus and you're set. The Raven has the latest tech that you want in a camera:

- Auto black shade
- Lighter Weight
- Latest form factor compatible with latest accessories

 

[Daniel S]

I've had a Weapon CF since December. I also have an EPIC DRAGON (which will be going to RED for a WEAPON upgrade on Monday) and SCARLET DRAGON (which will be going to RED for a WEAPON upgrade when its number is called). Based on my experience with the DSMC2 and DSMC camera platforms, I would say that RAVEN is 2x the camera that SCARLET DRAGON is for 1/2 the price. I say this because despite the fact that SCARLET DRAGON shoots 5K vs. 4K for RAVEN (4.5K if you shoot WS), the DRAGON sensor has better performance in the DSMC2 body then it ever did in the DSMC body, and because RAVEN has 2x the data rate that SCARLET DRAGON offers. That 2x data rate is really my basis for claiming "2x the camera". But I think it's valid.

You say you want to shoot music videos, which screams to me "lightweight cameras on gimbals with lots of slo-mo". RAVEN checks both of those boxes harder than SCARLET DRAGON.

Now, if you were shooting productions that really require PL lenses, then there's no question that SCARLET trumps RAVEN. The new SCARLET-W offers the same 140MB/sec that RAVEN offers, but with PL lens mounts, and of course, a slightly larger sensor, which can be very helpful for reframing while retaining resolution. In that context, the question would be whether you could find a used SCARLET DRAGON for a price commensurate with the current price/performance of SCARLET-W.

But given you care about slo-mo, and given that you likely will be living in the EF lens world (smaller, lightweight, much less expensive than PL glass typically), then RAVEN is a fantastic entry point.

@Michael thats why i think the Raven would be great specially with my Ronin M and i do own a bunch of L Lenses so its a + for me knowing the transition from Canon to Red wont be too expensive on the lens side.

Thanks guys great info once again! i will put my pre order in for the Raven, i know i am late in the pre order process but hopefully i can get it before summer shows up.

 

[Daniel S]

Raven if you're using EF glass. Get FOOL CONTROL to control the camera and pull focus and you're set. The Raven has the latest tech that you want in a camera:

- Auto black shade
- Lighter Weight
- Latest form factor compatible with latest accessories

Awesome i did not know that! the auto black shade will save me some time for sure and being a light camera its gonna be a breeze to shoot with my Ronin M.

 

[Michael Lindsay]

I say this because despite the fact that SCARLET DRAGON shoots 5K vs. 4K for RAVEN (4.5K if you shoot WS), the DRAGON sensor has better performance in the DSMC2 body then it ever did in the DSMC body

as sombody with a CF weapon I have to concur with the claim above.

We alongside lots of other guys where cynical about trading our cameras to Red Weapons (don't care about prores etc) but atfer having the camera for a while now I'd say it is a much better and easier camera to create great pictures with!... I believe these improvements will carry over to Raven and Scarlet W?

WHAT I THINK IS HUGE... you set the Black balance once and the camera just works in an easy perfectly optimal way!! Nearly every exposure and frame rate is automatically matched to a perfect BB! so not only are the blacks better anyway but the rarely discussed reality is that lots of the times on every kind of shoot (especially fast paced commercials) Epic Dragons where/are not shot in an optimal way.. Even a couple of degrees out on a Epic Dragon makes a huge difference but with the DSMC2 bodies it is taken care of...

I have just switched my Raven order for a Scarlet-W but only due to the fact we have more PL glass than Eos.. so this may be the only 4k Raven shoot I will ever do ;-)

Slowmo 4k Raven shot

there has never been a better time to own a Red camera!

 

[Mestizo Devon]

Curious, NOT COMPLAINING!!!:laugh:

Auto black balance for last years Red? Or something between???
Does this require massive power to accomplish? I wouldnt think so?
There are many other features of the DSMC2 that push users that direction.

 

[Phil Holland]

Curious, NOT COMPLAINING!!!:laugh:

Auto black balance for last years Red? Or something between???
Does this require massive power to accomplish? I wouldnt think so?
There are many other features of the DSMC2 that push users that direction.

Processing Power, Memory, and the architecture to implement it the way it is in DSMC2 bodies is not found in DSMC bodies.

 

[Mestizo Devon]

Dig it

Thank you Phil

 

[Michael Lindsay]

Curious, NOT COMPLAINING!!!:laugh:

Auto black balance for last years Red? Or something between???
Does this require massive power to accomplish? I wouldnt think so?

I have no idea about any of the architectural improvements... but I do think this stuff is more complicated than we think.

Outside of the operational BB calibration improvements there is something fundamentally different about the blacks/shadows on DSMC2. Now if you are carefull with an EpicD you can get close but the W has much more stable shadows and there is also improvements in the noise levels as well. I suspect even the throat (or somehing in the optical components behind the lens) are improving contrast/blacks... you can't really see it easily with some lenses but when I swap a masterprime between an Epic and a Weapon I can see it.

There are many other features of the DSMC2 that push users that direction.

not 100% I understand you?

Michael