If Reduser isn't very active, where is everybody?

[Zack Birlew]

Hey, everyone, I've noticed that it's slowed down a whole lot at Reduser. I've heard people talk about Facebook groups and going to other forums but, strangely, they never mention where they're going to for discussion. Heck, DVXUser isn't even all that active so trying to find someplace to talk about cameras is narrowing down as far as places I know that are still active.

Where are people going to? What forums are out there? What social media groups can I look at joining for consistent discussion?

Also, is it just the state of RED at the moment? I know Raptor is going to be a slow sell due to price and looking at the posts, there's more Komodo and Gemini posts than anything else before getting to the older cameras. The Off Topic section used to be pretty active but there's just a few blips of replies and that's it and the site seems to be on life support with the majority of it being just a literal few frequent posters updating and posting about new topics. I know NAB was cancelled and some work may still be slowed down but even in 2020 the site never seemed this slow and there's even still product announcements happening so I'm wondering where the pages and pages of discussion went on this site.

 

[Maik Müller]

I think it's scattered over social media for now, lots of redusers are connected through Facebook and post there, or into groups. I guess it's an "app-thing" since people are mostly communicating through mobile devices and have social media apps on there anyway.

I wouldn't assume this reflects the state of RED or Raptor at all. It's just a fact that people don't use web-forums that much anymore and younger folks just look up a YouTube video or Google a problem, post to insta and Facebook, instead of starting a thread on a forum.

They're missing out for sure, the days where this community was really glowing everyday were awesome.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Social media distribution for sure. But it seems people can get most of their info these days from their peers or from YouTube. RED cameras are no longer the great mystery they once were. Many are connecting via FB but it seems instagram is the main one lately.

I'm done with FB personally. Never used it much anyway, I stop by and take a peek once every month or two. It contributes nothing positive to society.

All the cool kids think FB and web forums like this are for boomers

I've met many people through this community who started out as budding filmmakers / aspiring DP's and they have gone on to do great things. Many of them are quite busy these days. RED forced a paradigm shift in the industry and there are a great many options for indie filmmakers. Most are not going to dedicate themselves to a singular web space like this one. Older curmudgeons like us can hang out here in our safe space. I still find a lot of use in specialized web forums like this. It's still the best venue to have meaningful discussion.

 

[Phil Holland]

Agree with what Jeff has to say really.

Hard to describe all the reasons, but you'll actually notice this across message boards and not shockingly it is due to social media as groups can push notifications to the phone and all that. You certainly can access this forum via mobile, but it won't have that ease of use that Facebook groups have really.

REDuser has been the best central source of information and I can only express the medium level frustration of many RED Groups that now exist on Facebook alone. Pros and Cons to this, but finding a good singular resource is tricky. I moderate a few of those groups as well, but much like here, there's pros and cons to who can join and all that. Here we have issues with spammers, bots, and "weird people". Mods do their best to handle that. The Facebook groups are also moderated, some rather well, but there's also a very large RED Camera group that is pretty prone to spam.

There was a span of time when REDuser was rather focused on RED Camera related things, cinematography discussion, with occasional chatter of other happenings. However, things move faster in this industry now. New products are released sometimes weekly or even daily.

Following Jarred's posts on Instagram and Facebook I feel is a necessity as that's often a good place to see a tease or get a quick question answered. Same for RED Digital Cinema's socials.

REDuser should still be a hub for RED related topics. It certainly expanded into a wealth of cinematography related conversation and information. More recently moderately being served as a wordpress/RSS/repost blog, which has been unusual, but at times useful. Tricky balance to understand exactly what REDuser should be overally IMO.

Ideally this should be a place where professionals through armatures can feel safe and confident in asking questions, sharing information, and all those things.

I should also underline that there's other user groups on Facebook, CML, and other sites. There's so many ways now for people to connect really.

But yes, ideally this would be a good place to chat camera, workflow, techniques, and all that comes with it.

 

[PatrickWebb]

I also agree with Jeff.
Also, what Phil mentions here is also fact.

I much prefer to be on this forum to ask and find out info still. I've had enough of the social media circus, tbh. I often have REDuser open on a tab window. I still like to share more on the forum than on FB or alike. However, that is my own personal preference here. I feel that the REDuser forum has still that connection to "everything". I feel that REDuser is also a pretty pumping resource for the market place. I've only experienced good responses and help from this forum, so, for what it's worth, this forum is still the hub.

I don't think REDuser is going away anytime soon. Well, I hope not.

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

Being old school has pros and cons.
I find RU has generally deeper dives and more considered contributions. Less ephemeral and more educational. Things do change fast, but figuring out best practices for integrating new technologies into effective results often benefits from more perspectives. That’s what brings me back to RU, where Jeff, Phil and so many others provide useful insight.

Cheers - #19

 

[Bruce Allen]

I check REDUSER way less now that Jarred posts a lot of stuff to Instagram and Facebook first instead of here. This used to be the one place you could check to get the info first but now it's not always.

The new re-design is less legible for me, and the information seems less dense. It's a bit of a slog to scroll through. And they seemed to kill the old links which is a clear example of "we don't really care about this enough to fix it" - it is clearly de-prioritized.

REDUSER had (and still has) a chance to be more of a general filmmaking site. In the beginning it was awesome because there were all of these dudes posting about stuff like the differences between an Arri follow focus and cheaper models or PL mount lenses and ND filters and grading... all of the stuff someone transitioning from lower-end cameras to the real deal needed to know. It was humble and scrappy and fun. Today it is rather filled with angry fanboys who haven't tried the other cameras - and so much misinformation and attacks on people who dare to say something balanced about RED.

I miss when it was a place where we could talk about issues plainly and work through them. Now, folks I know have to sign NDAs to cover up for issues with RED... uh, OK! That's not very reassuring as a filmmaker that I don't even know the issues to look out for because RED just solved it for someone famous then covered it up!

Maybe I was naive thinking it was ever balanced. Certainly as I have worked on bigger and bigger projects I've re-considered a lot of the stuff I took as gospel reading on REDUSER so maybe I was just less experienced and didn't see how bad the bias was.

I'm going to keep reading and posting here because I think folks like Phil post great stuff (although dude I wish one day Phil would write an honest 2c on RED's weak spots because it would be very interesting, I feel he's always for some reason only putting half his thoughts here and would prefer to hear the Whole Phil) - but also if I read something that clearly contradicts my own on-set experience I will call it out. Maybe one day that will get me banned but hey I think the truth is important.

For me Facebook has always been a marketing site. Treated as such, it's fine for me.

Newsshooter is now where I go the most. Cined is interesting too.

Bruce Allen
www.bruceallen.tv

 

[Brody_B]

I was expecting a thread like this soon. Though I am mostly active during new Red camera releases as I would get the most updated info on these cameras here directly. After the new camera buzz has faded and most all the information is out there, I have to focus back on filming and don't have much time to spend checking Reduser very often. Now with the new Raptor release I have been back on and have unfortunately noticed this forum has become a shadow of its former self. Sadly a much less informative and entertaining place without its regular members, Red team and Jarred's frequent activity on this forum.

One of the big issues I see recently is there are an endless amount of user questions, many I also have, that go unanswered due to this lack of Reds presence and the dwindling army of investigative and informative helping members. Not that Red owe's us this, its just a bummer to no longer see that happening here. This was something that I considered to be a key part of what made the Red community special over other camera manufacturers. Who remembers the Helium and Epic-W release? This place was popping off!!

Though I am grateful to the members (whom have personal experience) that still post answers today, I try to often as well, it would be an understatement to say it has become a bit stagnant here. I feel this sentiment may be the same among many long time members of this forum as well.

 

[Luka Sanader]

i remember when i have first time shot with Red in 2008 and 2009, community base for there cameras was unbelievable. i remember clearly saying to my self " i don't know how they did it but it looks like that Red has biggest RND and Marketing department in the camera world for free"... to bad but that hype is over. I think a lot of that "Digital revolution" enthusiasm is gone general. Finally i think good camera is far less important then 10 years ago. All the offerings form all the manufacturers are more then enough and lats face it even worst cameras today are amazing so there is a less need to "fix" issues or be on a quest for good Camera. just my 2c

 

[Brian Timmons]

On one hand, the general energy and enthusiasm is not nearly what it was in the early days but we're talking 14-15 years ago and the industry (if not the world) is in a very different place.

Jim Jannard’s presence alone was a big part of the excitement of those earlier days.
His 3am posts (which would occasionally get deleted by sunrise) kept things interesting if not controversial enough to keep this one of the most active filmmaking discussion sites around.

Judging by Komodo and V-Raptor, RED still generates considerable enthusiasm and sells gear in decent numbers so I do have my doubts RU’s decline is associated with the brand.

Perhaps it is the result of other platforms on the scene.
If so, I’m glad RED as a company adapted and has a presence on those platforms in addition to RU.

One silver lining is the discussions currently on RU seem to be at a lot more focused than in the past.
Despite the higher engagement in previous years, there was considerably lower “signal to noise” in the quality of posts.

It could be argued that the lower quality of posts was one of the reasons for the exodus from RU in the first place.

I miss some of the earlier mainstays on this board but there are still some excellent posters today that carry the torch and the board is still among the most informative for the nuts and bolts of filmmaking and of course all things RED.

Brian Timmons
BRITIM/MEDIA

 

[Sergio Perez]

I think its really a bit a change of times. We live in an era where people want an immediate response/gratification when communicating online. Platforms like Facebook, Instagram push for users to interact, with the likes, dislikes and emojis elements. The type of traditional forums like Reduser become more or less reduced to an audience that probably didn't grow up in "that" world.

On the other hand, reduser still feels like "home". here you have discussions, information and exchange with a much more rational, tough out dialogue and at a decent pace.

Its true, I do miss the constant interaction and the release of info from the red team in the prime of this forum. I do hope to hear more from the team here. But I do understand these are different times, the new generation of filmmakers just doesn't enjoy this sort of communication.

I remember how it was searching the forums, the topics , may they be of the teaser ones where everyone was speculating, or the technical discussion ones, like the brilliant David Mullen and John Callister sharing their knowhow.

We do still have Jarred, Phil, Jeff, Rob and the old gang thankfully still interacting here. Its still one of the greatest red sources on the internet and hopefully goes on for many more years!

 

[Dominik Muench]

I'm done with FB personally. Never used it much anyway, I stop by and take a peek once every month or two. It contributes nothing positive to society.

bloody oath, add the name of pretty much any other of the big tech companies right now and I ll agree, after all the shit I had to deal with facebook, instagram and tripadvisor in the last few weeks I'm considering laying off it all. Except reduser. Zack is right though, it has gotten a lot quieter here in the last 12 months unfortunately.

 

[Phil Holland]

I2c

You'll take note that most cinematographers, especially visible ones, don't do a lot of bashing and hashing. The best I'll do is show tests or discuss various things. Digging through the canals of REDuser you'll see lots of posts regarding OLPFs and such. I mean I honestly don't know anybody who has done more really on that front. Hell I've answered more other camera questions on social during 2020 than I'd care to admit mainly because of the pandemic pause.

The hardest truth that I've learned, particularly these past few years where I had to test all the main players in the digital cinema cameras multiple times for rather large clients is each camera has pros and cons. But there's too much that people get bogged down on. Brandism, people largely not knowing what they are talking about, weird back and forth regarding various topics that often lead to contrarian perspectives (<-- that's not so bad if the chatter is well thought out), and other things.

I own and shoot on RED cameras "mostly" professionally. I mean like 95+% of the time. I also own other cameras and will rent whatever is needed to get a shoot done. RED to me, particularly with Monstro and now Raptor, provides the most useful camera for a variety of projects. Most of my work as of late has been for big, big, big screen and I really do love the VistaVision format. I'm also not shoot much "taller than Super 35mm anamorphic" and that's one point I know we've discussed in the past.

The truth is I test so aggressively to know the strengths and weaknesses of these systems. Knowing what to avoid as well as what produces a certain type of image is critical for what I do. Literally have a rule/playbook for RED, Arri, Sony, Canon cameras. Those notes are derived from those tests, often projected projected tests or high quality 4K or 8K displays.

The concept of influence is indeed something I am aware of. It's a tricky balance as working professional because other working professionals eyeball what I'm doing a fair bit. I post about a light I used on a shoot, I get a phone call from the company saying they sold 25 units and now they want to explore #ad posts on social, which if you'll notice I've avoided like the plague likely to my own detriment as selling out is very, very in fashion. Being close with lens companies for years now, I post a reply to a thread about somebody looking for glass, I get a call from manufacturer X asking why I didn't recommend their glass. Of course it's because I answered the question to the best of my ability. I have no problems speaking honestly about camera stuff, but I've ran into more weird than you can possibly imagine on the internet and in person.

To the point of the cameras themselves. I mainly look to what they are good or best at when making my choice to own or shoot with. Generally speaking whatever I deem is the best camera out there for my purposes, you'll see me likely owning two or more of them. I operate mainly as a small production company or freelance Director or Cinematographer. If my gear works for my gig, gravy. If not, gotta rent or look for tools. As work comes in, I look closely at things to add to the kit that make a big difference. Right now I'm about to make a significant lighting investment because I have some rather weird plans for the feature I'm filming next year. Tied to this moment is looking at getting other Raptor or Raptor XL as I await more accessories while testing bits and bobs.

Next professional Raptor work I think that goes live from me will be at CES 2022 unless I do some personal or small shoots. Have two shorts I want to whack out before 2021 is over. Doing my best to get that done among other things.

 

[Bérenger Brillante]

I've noticed the same thing, but to me, it's not social medias. It's the new layout of the boards.
I just find it unclear now, a pain in the a** to read through, messages center is weird, I just don't like it.

Honestly, I'm not sure I'll keep coming back just because of that damn layout.
Sure, it needed updating, but... not that much.

Hey, everyone, I've noticed that it's slowed down a whole lot at Reduser. I've heard people talk about Facebook groups and going to other forums but, strangely, they never mention where they're going to for discussion. Heck, DVXUser isn't even all that active so trying to find someplace to talk about cameras is narrowing down as far as places I know that are still active.

Where are people going to? What forums are out there? What social media groups can I look at joining for consistent discussion?

Also, is it just the state of RED at the moment? I know Raptor is going to be a slow sell due to price and looking at the posts, there's more Komodo and Gemini posts than anything else before getting to the older cameras. The Off Topic section used to be pretty active but there's just a few blips of replies and that's it and the site seems to be on life support with the majority of it being just a literal few frequent posters updating and posting about new topics. I know NAB was cancelled and some work may still be slowed down but even in 2020 the site never seemed this slow and there's even still product announcements happening so I'm wondering where the pages and pages of discussion went on this site.

 

[Bob Gundu]

I can't handle this new layout. Jarred's post on social are all I follow now.

 

[Med D]

I also blame the site change. I can't really navigate to the latest posts without first logging in, and I generally do not log in unless posting. Maybe this was intentional, to force users to log in. In my case I have just stopped visiting as often. RU has always been a bit odd with regard to users though. Usually the number of active users is some crazy-high figure when it is obvious that there are only a small number of actual users.

I don't think any SM sites offer the depth that this site offered in the past.

 

[Joel Arvidsson]

I can't handle this new layout. Jarred's post on social are all I follow now.

Yeah, I miss the old layout!

 

[Les Hillis]

The new forum layout hasn't made much of a difference to me. I still use this page as my entry point ( https://www.reduser.net/forum ), then go to the sub-groups I'm interested in, then use the little double-arrowed icon in the 'Last Post' column to read the latest posts of the threads I've been following.

I still use this forum for pretty much all my RED updates and news. There just isn't a lot of it now. In the past there was a lot of hype leading up to new camera releases, then a lot of information exchanged as people bought in or upgraded, along with the sharing of creative output that hadn't been possible before for a lot of people.

There was also a more general learning curve being undertaken back then as 'digital cinema' camera's and workflows were being developed and used for the first time by a lot of new Redusers (including me). Anyone new to that now can find a lot of information just by searching here instead of actually asking questions. And there's more of a chance they won't be needing RED-specific information as there are more alternatives out there now than when RED was breaking new ground.

Got to say too, there were times when some of the behavior of the forum members here almost turned me off Reduser altogether. The disrespect shown towards Jim, then Jarred, other RED team members, and even Phil, made me wonder at times how the site was even left up. The J****mag thread in particular was a low-point that made me realize this community wasn't quite what I thought it was, (have still got a personal shit-list from that, and still see people showing their true colours here and elsewhere now and then).

With RED's new direction in regards to camera development and information releases, and with the whole world moving in different directions in general, I'm not really expecting a return to the wild-west hey-days of Reduser. Have seen other online communities come and go too, which was hard to imagine at the time if you were there at their peak, so it's not that unusual. Not predicting the end of Reduser altogether, I think it does still serve a useful purpose, but yeah...

 

[Brian Timmons]

I also blame the site change. I can't really navigate to the latest posts without first logging in, and I generally do not log in unless posting. Maybe this was intentional, to force users to log in. In my case I have just stopped visiting as often. RU has always been a bit odd with regard to users though. Usually the number of active users is some crazy-high figure when it is obvious that there are only a small number of actual users.

I don't think any SM sites offer the depth that this site offered in the past.

The slow downs on RU were before the site change but I do agree with some of the log in issues you're experiencing.

I think the NEW POSTS section is also slow to update. I'll see actual new posts that are not listed when I select that button.
It's also frustrating that one must log-in to be able to actually view the NEW POSTS section.

I understand there will be some growing pains with the new forum software but those are some of the current issues I see.
Still won't discourage me from going on this forum.

Brian Timmons
BRITIM/MEDIA

 

[Mark A. Jaeger]

Today it took 6 tries to login. Typing carefully, et al it just wouldn't go.

IMO there are too many issues regarding logging in, seeing new posts in order, et al. It has reduced my frequency for visiting the site. I still visit but instead of daily it's more like weekly.

I suspect there are many more that are 'turned off".