Ideal DCP format for RED theatrical vs. festival releases

[Mike Finegan]

I was sent a post in AVID forums titled "Choosing the correct film mask for DCP projection from RED 5k FF"
You can google that if you like.

But basically the claim was that 5K FF (post to 4K) would not provide correct DCP framing for theatrical release.
I suspect that the answer provided is not completely accurate and wonder what this group recommends when creating DCP for theatrical release and also for Festival Release.
Expect there would be two basic answers - one for ~1.9 aspect and one for scope.
Thanks,
Mike

 

[Phil Holland]

Sounds like somebody is on drugs somewhere.

Red 5K FF is 5120x2700 which scaled to 4K is 4096×2160, which is the DCI compliant DCP resolution. 2K is 2048×1080.

Dragon 6K FF is a hair different as it's a 1.94:1 aspect ratio however.

In terms of employing masks into a DCP release that entirely depends on the content's desired finished aspect ratio. There are standard ones, but you can put anything in the "container".

 

[Kristin Stewart]

There are basically three common ratios/containers for DCP's, be they 2K or 4K ones : 1.9 (FULL), 1.85 (FLAT) and 2.39 (SCOPE). You can put the picture in each container like Phil wrote, with at least one side equal to it, for instance at 2K 1920x1080 in a FLAT 1998x1080 container.

Cheers,

Kristin

 

[Brad Allen]

Hi Mike,

Yeah that was a crazy thread. I actually by chance got emailed from the author from that post on the AVID forums. (He'd managed to find an aspect ratio cheat sheet doc that I had made up).

Anyway, I basically advised aim for Flat or Scope simply for compatibility with multiple venues and because that seems to be what the majority of content is created for. The email I sent back to him:

The two most commonly used formats for DCPs are Flat (1.85) and Scope (2.39). The actual DCI spec does allow for two more than formats than this - HDTV (1.78) and Full Container (1.90) however Full Container is sometimes not supported by the cinema even if the DCI certified projector technically supports it (for example the screen masking in the room may not be set up for full container). As a result, I don't think Full Container is used all that often to ensure compatibility across multiple venues - however I hear competing voices on this from time to time.


If I were you I would be creating a DCP in the Flat (1.85) aspect ratio as this is the closest to 1.90 that your footage was originally shot at. That then leaves you with the choice of cropping your image or scaling it to fit inside that container - either choice is not a deal breaker in my mind (but it may be for you knowing the material). On the one hand if you crop you will fill the container completely and lose any black bars. On the other hand if you scale it to fit, you will have minimal black bars on the top and bottom of your footage - this is done probably more commonly than you realise for DCPs. In fact the DCP naming convention actually gives you scope to specify when material of a different aspect ratio is place inside a container (in order to help projectionists set up custom masking if needed). If you are desperate to avoid shaving the edges of your frames off with cropping to fit the 1.85 ratio, then I would recommend scaling it to fit - seems the most straightforward solution in my mind.

In the above I advised him to not go for the full container mostly when considering masking systems across multiple venues. Like I said though, I hear competing voices on this from time to time. Have you guys ever experienced a cinema not being set-up to adjust their masking to a full container properly? I remember visiting an independent cinema and their only screen masking options were flat and scope which surprised me a bit. But then again, it was an independent cinema and they clearly weren't at the forefront of being on top of all the technical aspects for digital projection...

 

[Peter Arnold]

Flat and Scope are the two versions used in digital cinemas.
Everything else is outside the standards or at least very uncommon.
It's possible but you will have a hard time to find a cinema were the masking does anything else than flat and scope.
I deal with DCP all the time and haven't seen anything else apart from Indie productions which usually are 16:9 in a Flat container.
Scope by the way is 2048x858 pixels in 2K and 4096x1716 in 4K for theatrical release.

Peter

 

[Garrett Sergeant]

RED framing/DCPs

RED framing/DCPs

I'm not privy to the Avid thread, but if I had to guess the misunderstanding stems from the fact that RED was advocating for 2:1 aspect ratio for the longest time. Either way it's a moot point, as already pointed out here.

If you're trying to make appropriate decisions regarding the festival route, I would recommend a 2K FLAT (1.85:1) container above all else. Most festivals don't have 4K capability and since you're shooting on the Epic you'll benefit from the extra allocation of information. I say FLAT only because I've run across a few scenarios where festivals will not or can not re-matte for SCOPE. It also provides you a consistent projection scenario when exhibiting at festivals that do not support DCP and you'll need to resort to Blu-Ray.

---
Garrett Sergeant
CTO, Simple DCP
www.simpledcp.com

 

[Mike Finegan]

As always thanks for the concise and accurate responses in RedForum