I'd love a RED "Stealth"

[Jason Honeycutt]

What I keep waiting for, I haven't seen yet so I thought I'd mention it in the hopes that RED makes it.

RED's always had the non-traditional approach, which I love so this would be geared toward the true Indie filmmaker who doesn't care about permits and insurance... the RED "Stealth." It's the size of point and shoot (like the Black Magic Pocket Camera), uses high speed SD cards, very low profile, maybe only 1080p (possibly 3K, depending on SD card speeds, to one-up the Pocket Camera) but RAW and with the RED codec. It's made to look very low profile, to shoot in crowded areas like, say, the Santa Monica Promenade where police are very savvy about stopping you for permits... or anywhere else you need to "steal" shots. I can't get my rig into these place so something like this would be amazing for some pick-up shots.

Also, mounts... Nikon/Canon/PL, same mounts as the Epic/Scarlet, if we want to interchange with what we already own.

Just an idea for the engineers Would anyone else want one? I've been debating getting a Pocket Camera for this very reason but, eh, rather get a RED version so it matches better.


[How about a Dragon upgrade in exchange for the idea, haha]

 

[Matt Gottshalk]

Red will never come out with a 1080-only camera.

 

[Jason Honeycutt]

Red will never come out with a 1080-only camera.

Oh, I totally agree... I just didn't want to be greedy I think 3K would be awesome. But a small version of the body would be amazing (menu screen built in), super low profile, but we'd have to sacrifice 'something' to keep the price cheap and lowered-spec enough to keep it out of the Scarlet's price range. I think it'd be easier for people to digest in the $1,000-$1,500 range for an extra camera to 'steal' shots. The main thing is the RED codec, which we all love so much. If they could apply 13 stops in combo with the REDCode look... I'm in right away.

The key would be (on a price point end) to keep it near the Black Magic Pocket Camera price... and lower than DSLRs, which are easy to steal shots with. I really dig the Nikon D800 for video but it doesn't do RAW (without a hack). But, RED is also smart enough to know that you can't just hand over that tech for that cheap where it could take away the Scarlet market.

Just something that's not going to get us stopped. On real gigs, yeah, we pay the permits and the various police and fire and whoever else lines up to get their payout for the day but for personal gigs (like short films, for 'fun'), paying all of those fees doesn't make sense so you have to use lame cameras for those public shots because (as most of you know), in LA, you get stopped all the time for permits. (Try getting anywhere near the Santa Monica Pier with a RED and see how quickly you get bounced.)

I think a camera like this would be awesome but BM might have already taken that market space. (Their new production cameras at NAB, though, were archaic-looking, though... what the hell were those huge black boxes?)

 

[paulherrin]

you can't mount a lens to anything and be stealth... alternatively, come down south where the weather is cool for such things

best stop while you're ahead, jason - it just won't happen. get a next gen gopro/action-cam, maybe you can wire it to an external recorder.

or, get a friggin' permit already.

or you can join the military. although, they might just hand you a red cam...

 

[Stephan Meier]

How about a 5D3 with Magic Lantern on it? You get RAW and many tourists walk around with similar cameras. Worked for me.... ;-)

 

[Jason Honeycutt]

How about a 5D3 with Magic Lantern on it? You get RAW and many tourists walk around with similar cameras. Worked for me.... ;-)

I was thinking that but I actually really dig the 13 stops of the Black Magic, plus there's a PL mount adapter now. I figure that and a 35mm prime and nobody will know the difference.

you can't mount a lens to anything and be stealth... alternatively, come down south where the weather is cool for such things

best stop while you're ahead, jason - it just won't happen. get a next gen gopro/action-cam, maybe you can wire it to an external recorder.

or, get a friggin' permit already.

or you can join the military. although, they might just hand you a red cam...

I've owned a RED for a while now but even stripped down, it's hard to pass my rig off as "Oh, I'm just shooting some home video." The places I'd like to steal shots would be, say, at a MLB baseball game or the Promenade or basically any place that would be a fortune to permit. I'm down for permitting but, I'm not sure if you're local, but you can't shoot in a place like Santa Monica for less than $8,000 as there are three layers of permits; Film LA, City of Santa Monica, and the local business group thing. Then, you have to pay for a cop to "oversee" you for $140ish/hr (I think 10 hour minimum?) and if you have a generator, you need a fireman around $140ish an hour as well, with minimum times locked in. It's such a shakedown. For instance, I'm shooting a short and I've permitted all my other scenes, without the LAPD and LAFD "retirement fund" fees. It makes no sense that the city will let street vendors play (with generators) for pennies... yet, if you have a camera involved, suddenly there's a chance you can burn the city down, haha.

[And with commercial productions, I'm 100% for permitting, no doubt... but I'm just talking out of pocket short films and 'for fun' projects, non-profit.]

A camera I'd like would absolutely not be to replace the Epic/Scarlet/Dragon, obviously, but just one for some pick-ups... but obviously it's a pipe dream and I might have to go to the 'dark side' to get the Pocket Camera. Its only downside is that it's only 1080p. Blah. I've seen some amazing films shot on it though.

 

[paulherrin]

yeah, we call that "get in there, get it, and get out"

i ain't local. give me half a day, i'll play.

you got some 4k dslr or action options around the bend for stealin'
get wired up in your backpack or pocket with a recorder and run those drills and dance moves

 

[Brian Merlen]

people really bother you guys about that stuff? i never do that stuff for my personal shoots, and i'm the kinda guy who is trying to drop sticks in grand central for a time lapse and explaining to security "no but you don't understand, it needs sticks to work as a time lapse"...or filming some street skaters terrorizing a local curb

 

[paulherrin]

it's way worse in places like la/ny where there's a buncha nonsense. in secondary cities it's still a deal if the shoot is sizable at all, and a buncha schools enforce the same standards anyways. obviously if you're out in public with any crew for more than 15 minutes anywhere but the smallest towns you're going to have to have something, even if it's permission on the spot. subway systems are notoriously bad for that kinda stuff. ahem, like our capital where you can't even request a permit for peak hours.

 

[Jason Honeycutt]

people really bother you guys about that stuff? i never do that stuff for my personal shoots, and i'm the kinda guy who is trying to drop sticks in grand central for a time lapse and explaining to security "no but you don't understand, it needs sticks to work as a time lapse"...or filming some street skaters terrorizing a local curb

Oh yeah. It's funny... I was out doing this one scene for a short I was doing and it had to be in the middle of absolutely nowhere, a desert road with no telephone phones... which is shockingly hard to find in the Palmdale area. It was just maybe and two actors (granted, I brought a collapsible jib) but I'll be damned if not 20 minutes in (with no traffic) if a cop doesn't pull up and tells us we need permits! It's crazy out here. It's a revenue stream for the city/county so they're really on top of it and super savvy.

I will proudly say that at Vasquez Rocks, the famous "Star Trek" rocks, they are horrendous about permits but we still got some break shots right under their noses... there usually are two Rangers parked in the lot and others roaming. We did a hiking scene toward the big, famous peak. The actor and I dressed down in hiking clothes, my camera gear in my backpack (a DSLR at the time), the actor's change of clothes in his backpack. We hiked in, changed, put the hiking clothes back in the backpacks, began shooting (full rig; matte box, FF, filters, etc.). Then, the closer we got to the main area, he and I broke apart and I busted out a 200mm and sticks in the parking lot, camera stripped down to a regular DSLR. The Ranger was looking at me oddly, as the actor was climbing this 45 degree angled rock in a business suit and dress shoes. I told the Ranger, "I've gotta shoot this... nobody's gonna believe me." He was kinda laughing, "Some things people do on their lunch breaks, I guess." I kept shooting, got my shots and we got the hell outta there.

Ah, but if had only been shot on a RED

 

[Jarek Zabczynski]

LA is the worst place to shoot anything on the low. Granted, I've gotten away with a lot, but shooting in other cities is playland in comparison. I feel like I can shoot anything I want in NY and Miami.

 

[paulherrin]

haha, best always to keep it cool... it's certainly helpful to know how to speak with officials on the spot, every one's an individual. even more helpful to know the officials where you're from

reds definitely stand out as pro gear, even stripped down, for better or for worse. i think it's actually only ever helped me get permission to shoot stuff that i absolutely couldn't have had any other way. also helps to keep your footprint as small as possible, don't bust out the sticks or steadies or sliders or any of that nonsense. drills and dance moves...

 

[Patrick Grossien]

What's with the people in the shot? Of course on a film set with actors, this wouldn't apply. Over here you would have to ask for a signed permission of each single person to be able to show the footage publicly. (This doesn't apply for crowds where you can't make out individuals)

 

[Jason Honeycutt]

LA is the worst place to shoot anything on the low. Granted, I've gotten away with a lot, but shooting in other cities is playland in comparison. I feel like I can shoot anything I want in NY and Miami.

Yeah, it's just not fun here anymore. They make you feel like you're doing something criminal when, in any other city, you're just 'creating'. Here, it's so uninspiring and constricting, creatively, to plan a shoot for fun. Again, I understand if it's a commercial shoot, that's a different ballgame but just a short or an indie 'feature' out of pocket, c'mon. Like you said, any other city and you can shoot to you're heart's content. Hell, my hometown (it's a small farm town) in Michigan is asking me to come back and shoot this low budget feature I wrote and they'll let me do everything for free!! No location fees (and great locations), free use of gyms for basketball scenes, locals as extras for free, etc. I don't have to cap my creativity knowing I can do whatever I want there and that just seems so fun compared to how it's just a "business" here in LA. Let's be honest, whether we make a ton of money or just do it for free... if we don't get a change to shoot and create, as artists, we're all dead inside. We need that freedom.

 

[patrickortman]

Ah, Vasquez Rocks!

Ah, Vasquez Rocks!

Man your story brings back memories. I was doing a Star Trek spoof for a project, and needed the famous Vasquez Rocks background for it, where Captain Kirk fought the Gorn. Of course, you're right- security's NUTS there.

So I shot some panos on a stills DSLR, stitched 'em together, and shot the actors on a similar day, on greenscreen, and composited them in. Worked like a charm!

I only shoot commercial projects in LA, now. Personal stuff I shoot anywhere else. For exactly the reasons you bring up.

 

[bevan goldswain]

Something I have seen done before that works is to Make it look like a wedding shoot

Security guards and police are very freindly to brides (or anyone wearing a wedding dress)

 

[scott devitte]

Panasonic GM1 with 12-32 kit lens (tiny little zoom) and 12mm 2.0 zuk., 20mm 1.7 lumix and 45 1.8 zuk., all really great lenses, is a great little 1080p rig. Runs all day on a little tiny battery. Get it in silver and black and it just looks like a very small point and shoot. Add a Gh4 which is also on the small side for when you need less stealth but still look like a tourist, especially with the 12-32, 12mm and 45 in silver, and shoot internal 4k down to 1080p that is really great. And if you get the 14mm lumix 2.5, the GM1 will slip in your pocket though it is my least favorite lumix lens.

 

[NateWeaver]

Not gonna happen.

Red bailed on $3K for $3K when Blackmagic horned in.

And frankly, seeing how ungrateful that market is on social media for bringing amazing products (not without faults, some major), I'm not sure why any company would sign up for Blacmagic's current pain. It would take somebody with little experience to jump in and say "we can do that better than Blackmagic, for cheaper, and still have it be worth our time"

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I still dream of the "professional pocket camera" that the Scarlet was originally billed as. The BMPC is something in that vein, but it's a piece of crap. That's my professional opinion.

I'm not saying anything about 3K for $3K, that's not what I'm looking for. I want a point and shoot with an awesome integrated lens, or a selection of compact interchangeables, that can give me high fps stills, great resolution and 4.5K+ RAW motion at 12bits or better with at least 12 useable stops of DR. This isn't going to happen for $3K. Not yet anyway and I don't care about that part of it. I want a a Panasonic GF series or Sony E-mount APS-C sized camera that does everything a Scarlet does and possibly more with a more stills-optimized sized sensor.