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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

IBC '09? There's a new Canon camera to be announced soon (Canon source)

ok if canon releases a raw camera shotting raw images with a PL-MOUNT (really really important for ACs out there) with build in timecode out/xlr input/ a way to power a wireless follow focus, free software upgrades and a funny counterpart of jarred under 7000 usd.....then, only then it would be somewhere near interesting for me.


ok, will a lot of jobs be done with the canon 7d?
yes.

crash cam
extreme lowlight/have no money to light/cant light because i am doing it without permission situations.
"storyboard videos"
casting videos
my final delivery is the WORLD WIDE WEB.
I dont care about Color Corection situations
vimeo/youtube musicvideos
imagefilms
parts of documentaries

__________


i am not in the business of the above scenarios.
 
My guess is that the camera will have a Canon mount.
 
canon lenses are not cool enough in my AC is focus pulling world.

but i know that at the end there will be the yeah-i-know-there-is-something-better-but-this-is-good-enough-for-80%-of-the-jobs-product.


btw: tom did you ever finished your 3rd world war scenario?
 
Any new camera from Canon will have the convenience of a video camera rather a traditional cinema camera with PL mount.

With a APS-C sensor size, there will be 3rd parties offering PL to Canon mount conversion through any means, I am sure. As some fellow over these boards has tested/shot lately, correct Tom?
 
think it´s like the most technical releases out there. The company with the fastest release seems to be the winner cause of the huge amount of sales.
No matter if it is the better one.

The Scarlet will be the better camera for most of us even though they sold millions of the 5D or 7D out there. But what if Canon is working on a similar camera and their DSLRs are just a way to keep their market alive? Maybe they´re just filling the gaps to their next big release?
 
Cüneyt Kaya said:
btw: tom did you ever finished your 3rd world war scenario?
Click to expand...

Oh, thanks for asking. No, I was supposed to be writing this summer while shooting, but I got a really late start and was just so busy shooting and traveling. I will, though. It's an awesome story that will be fun to write. :)
 
Emanuel A. said:
With a APS-C sensor size, there will be 3rd parties offering PL to Canon mount conversion through any means, I am sure. As some fellow over these boards has tested/shot lately, correct Tom?
Click to expand...

I don't know much about PL>EOS adaptation. Obviously, Pawel converted his 50D to PL mount, and slapped Master Primes onto it. There are a lot of people here with good knowledge on the subject. It may depend on how Canon designs this cinema camera. I know that some of the obstructions inside an EOS DSLR body are just junk -- plastic molds -- that don't even need to be there. But I will assume you are right. Somehow, some way, people will put cine glass onto any forthcoming Canon digital cinema camera. Canon themselves might facilitate this. Who knows.
 
It's "funny," but this whole war we are anticipating was started by a series of overreactions on both sides. It seems Canon was happy to let Red make cinema cameras. But when Jim found out that Nikon and Canon were adding HD to their still cameras, he reacted with the DSMC concept.

Why Jim really cared is kind of beyond me, b/c in truth Canon's and Nikon's D-whatever's never posed a serious threat to any of Red's products. Nonetheless, word was now coming out of the Red camp that everything had changed, that they wanted to sell soccer moms cameras that shot both moving and still images.

Well sorry, but that's Canon's bread and butter market. Red is successful enough and Jim rich enough that they weren't just going to ignore Red eying their market.

So while Canon was never really a threat to Red, Red made itself a threat to Canon. In truth, it's highly doubtful Red would ever come out with a still camera that could compete head-to-head against Canon and Nikon. And DSMC has so far been more concept than anything Canon should fear. So Canon could have happily gone on ignoring Red and leaving it to sell five thousand cameras a year.

But opening shots were fired by both sides and they have been returned, so it seems like a war has started.

Just my observations, which may or may not be correct or entirely historically accurate.
 
It's "funny," but this whole war we are anticipating was started by a series of overreactions on both sides. It seems Canon was happy to let Red make cinema cameras. But when Jim found out that Nikon and Canon were adding HD to their still cameras, he reacted with the DSMC concept.
Click to expand...

I doubt that Jim making DSMC had anything to do with Canon. It's just the natural, logical progression of technology. I have seen R1 described as essentially a "DSLR with a supercomputer strapped to the sensor." So this "merge" has been anticipated for a long time by technology buffs.

IMHO, and the opinion of many others, Canon has always been the company to watch out for with respect to competition against Red. Canon has huge resources and R&D prowess, and doesn't have any $250K cameras like the F950, F23, F35 to protect. It was simply a question of whether Canon would wake up and smell the coffee. They could have put out a FF35 HD camera that shot 4K five years ago. But they have been asleep at the wheel. Jim has obviously woken them up.
 
Tom, I think you are completely underestimating the threat Red posed to Canon when it intimated that it would be moving both down market and into still imaging.

That said we could all be wrong about this most important announcement in the company's history. Perhaps there's a Segway in that box, LOL.
 
I really don't see Red competing with Canon on stills.
 
Cüneyt Kaya said:
canon lenses are not cool enough in my AC is focus pulling world.

but i know that at the end there will be the yeah-i-know-there-is-something-better-but-this-is-good-enough-for-80%-of-the-jobs-product.


btw: tom did you ever finished your 3rd world war scenario?
Click to expand...

Have you ever tried a Zeiss Contax/Yashica 50mm or 85mm on a Canon? Very long focus throw, buttery smooth focusing, and similar sharpness and contrast to the cinema lenses. They became the ZF lenses and the ZF lenses became the compact primes. No reason Canon can't put there optics into beefed up cinema style housings with a Canon EOS mount like zeiss did with the compacts. In terms of SLR and motion picture lenses, Canon has more lens technology and experience than anybody - probably including Zeiss (although obviously they are right there too = point is they are probably neck and neck and I suspect Canon has more money.)

This is all good. I would look forward to putting a Canon ENG/EFP/Cine style zoom with S35 coverage on my Birgerized REDONE/EPIC. If I can have a backup 7D body (or whatever the next gen is) with APS-C sensor for $1700 that's a great still camera that could save my ass if something goes wrong with the main camera or just to grab a second angle/B-roll - well that's even better.
 
Tom said:
I really don't see Red competing with Canon on stills.
Click to expand...

I see RED competing with any digital camera in terms of image quality. I don't see them competing on price alone in the stills market. Only at the very top end of the DSLR market, $5k and up for a body.
 
The DSLR stills market is saturated. It's not RED's niche at the moment. There are a dozen huge companies, including Sony, trying to break into that market.
 
Tom said:
The DSLR stills market is saturated. It's not RED's niche at the moment. There are a dozen huge companies, including Sony, trying to break into that market.
Click to expand...

I agree, these are motion cameras first and still cameras 2nd. But DSMC will change the paradigm for the high end stills market. There was an article in a recent DPpro about the need for still photogs to become more motion savvy, or they will be losing market share to the DP's who can do both.
 
Pawel Achtel said:
I'm ready to chop'n'roll :smiley:
Click to expand...

This may sound like a stupid question, but why did you chop/chisel your 50d camera much like you will do to the new 7D? Is it the depth of the PL lenses or the width?

Curious? Nice idea? How did you do this and adapter it to your 50D?

Thanks.
 
Peter Moretti said:
It's "funny," but this whole war we are anticipating was started by a series of overreactions on both sides. It seems Canon was happy to let Red make cinema cameras. But when Jim found out that Nikon and Canon were adding HD to their still cameras, he reacted with the DSMC concept.
Click to expand...

Here's my take on the historical events:

In the DSLR world, video was a natural progression of Live View. Live View was already common in P&S cameras but was not available on DSLRs because of the mirror and the sensor was only "on" when you took a picture. Olympus was the first one with Live View in a DSLR when they introduced the E-330 in 2006. Then in August of 2007, Canon put Live View in the EOS-40D and Nikon put it the D3 and D300. Finally, one year later in August 2008, Nikon introduced 720P video on the D90 with Canon introduced 1080P video on the 5DMkII.

Video and Live View were natural advances in DSLRs because (1) they were normal features in non-DSLR cameras and camera manufacturers wanted to (among other things) lure step-up buyers to the more profitable DSLR market and (2) the AP, Reuters and other news agencies wanted their photographers to be able to shoot web video as well.

Personally, I don't think Canon was sitting on this technology. It probably took a lot of development to just do it and then to produce it on a mass scale. There are a lot of issues to overcome: read out speed, heat, power consumption, associated circuitry and processors and this camera needed to boot up in less than a second. All of this needs to be designed, packaged and tested to be reliable enough for mass production. You only have so much time for design before it gets frozen and then sent to manufacturing. So if you can't get the feature in this time, it has to wait until the next product. It might sound like they're screwing you for doing this, but if they don't get products to market, their competitors will and take your market share.

On the RED side of things, Scarlet was announced at NAB 2008 and it looked more less like a small camcorder at that time. Later that year when the D90 and 5DMkII appeared, Jim introduced the DMSC with this thread: http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=18273&

and then I think Scarlet/Epic changed into the brain concept. Based on the DMSC thread, it seems RED was responding to the changes happening on the still camera side. Canon and Nikon were responding to normal competitive pressures in their own still camera market.
 
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