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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

I think my BT Scarlet-X is broken... records wacky screwed up shit, sensor problem or

Tim Whitcomb said:
Keys to great experience with RED if you have a problem. - 100% succss rate in 4 years.

1. Dont post the problem here first
2. File a support ticket with tech support AND your Bomb Squad rep
3. Vent all of the above concerns Privately and thru email
4. give them a chance to remedy and fix it.
5. Avoid coming on here to complain except as a last resort and/or if RED is slow to respond
6. If you do have no choice but to post... then Try to avoid negative verbiage like "lemon" and other drama filled descriptions (this is especailyl true BEFORE the problem is diagnosed or you are just spreading FUD for competitors and TROLLS
7. Be succinct in the description of issue as others may be able to help...


Postong publicly "Oh man Ill never trust this on a job" does not give me confidence to offer help, especially as its obvious you came here first and didnt give support a chance to respond to your issue.

You seem to have convinced yourself its catastrophic before any confirmation of the problem.. this may lead to stress and health problems. You have a warranty, stuff happens.

Misery loves company and not surprisingly several jumped on here with more negative comments. Again,, nothing wrong with being disappointed, but airing your issues before giving them a chance to remedy seems wholly unfair.

Good luck with your issue, I trust it will be resolved as i also know REd goes above and beyond to make things right. By far the best camera service I have ever received from any company... give em a chance!
Click to expand...

i wonder why red users are sometimes considered a cult....
 
I completely agree with your said points, Patrick.

I'm waiting for my BT Scarlet to arrive in Canada, but the mentalities of some of the people on here never cease to amaze me. I have seen this issue crop up here and there for the past few months, but there has been no response from RED about what might be the cause of the issue, and possible resolution, let along ETA. A lot of us purchase these equipments from RED to use them on professional sets - and quite frankly, people lose a lot of confidence in the company if a camera can fail right away, unnoticed after a month of "intensive" QA testing.

A forum is here to help people solve their similar problems quickly and efficiently - I do not see a problem with that at all. And using words like "lemon" does not offend me in any way if they describe the situation accurately (which, to me looks accurate in Patrick's case).

Sometimes it feels like the sure way to get a faster response from support is to come to the forum and get some visibility.

Having said that - I'm still looking forward to my camera. Only finger-crossed that this will not happen to me.

patrickortman said:
Tim,

I respectfully disagree with a lot of points in your post.

1) "Don't post the problem here, first" and "Avoid coming on here as a last resort"

Seriously? I've been a RED customer since 2007. The first place we go- the very first place- when things go wrong is to REDUser.net. We do a search to see if anyone else has had similar issues, and what their resolution was. If it's an easy fix, we fix it ourselves and move on. That's how we roll. Discouraging people from documenting bugs and problems with their REDs on REDUser for fear of "trolls" and whatever is just about the dumbest thing I've ever heard in my life. And having this stuff on REDuser absolutely helps RED lower their support costs as well as helping out the general community of RED users. In this case, I saw (and still see) no definitive answer to the corrupted frames issue, nor have I seen much about failed black shading resolution.

2) The words used. Hmm. Well, in my case, my Scarlet IS a lemon, and is headed back to RED for fixing or replacement. As always RED support did a great job. RED QA fell down on the job, however, as my camera had issues right out of the box. I can't think of a nicer word for my particular Scarlet, can you? Perhaps "performance-challenged"? I'm slightly joking, Tim, but seriously- encouraging censorship (even self-censorship) is a really uncool position you've taken up with regards to REDUser. As for the "competition" hearing about QA issues? Fuck 'em. They're miles behind RED right now, and part of the appeal of RED is their pirate mentality. RED's not defensive, RED's about offense. Encouraging people to begin circling the wagons is bullshit.

3) Posting publicly I'll never trust this on a job is NOT exactly what I said, by the way. I did say something similar, but not that- you made it more drama-filled. Yes, it gives me pause to take this particular Scarlet on a shoot somewhere (like the UK, I leave in a couple weeks for a job in London) without backup. What's unreasonable about stating that, in response to someone yelling REINSTALL THE FIRMWARE!!! at you?
Click to expand...
 
I've had this issue for a year now on and off, camera in the shop at the moment again... last time it was in they repleaced circuit boards was all i was told but issue presented itself again after a few weeks. still waiting to see what happens.. still loving my camera when it works though..
 
I had an Canon XL2 arrive totally dead, which made a clunking noise when I tried to power it up. And they required plenty of documentation before they finally admitted the problem and replaced it.

I bought an EOS adapter for that camera which quit working shortly out of warranty and was stuck with a dead unit which I would have had to pay a repair for, in order to sell. It's sitting on a shelf for all these years.

So let's quit perpetuating the myth that Canon, et. al. have never delivered a lemon and are instantaneously responsive, as a foil to RED.

I've spent many thousands of dollars and have enjoyed many Canon cams over the years (still do). But let's deal in facts, not myths. If Canon had a forum where they freely allowed their customers to air grievances about non-working gear. They don't have one, ergo you don't get to hear the complaints first-hand, conveniently located in one place.

Patrick, without yelling, I find your refusal to reload the firmware rather strange. Are you more committed to solving the problem or bitching about RED's QC process? If you have been a user for as long as you say, then you will have read many threads where a simple firmware and clearing of the brain has fixed many problems instantaneously. Your refusal to even try a simple solution when it has been repeatedly suggested and has a long track record of success, seems unnecessarily stubborn.

The things people are saying here are attempts to help. I think Tim is suggesting that you take some steps to establish a personal relationship with the company. I don't understand why people are mocking this approach. It works. Everything about making films successfully is about building relationships - this isn't rocket science, it's what makes productions move forward. Tried, tested, and true.

Can RED improve? Yes, always. I've had occasionally uneven customer support results, usually when I'm between Bomb Squadder and have not, as Tim suggests, built up that relationship. Should that burden be placed on us? Probably not, but given that RED has adopted the personal attention approach, Tim's advice is solid and it works.
 
solid

Meryem Ersoz said:
I had an Canon XL2 arrive totally dead, which made a clunking noise when I tried to power it up. And they required plenty of documentation before they finally admitted the problem and replaced it.

I bought an EOS adapter for that camera which quit working shortly out of warranty and was stuck with a dead unit which I would have had to pay a repair for, in order to sell. It's sitting on a shelf for all these years.

So let's quit perpetuating the myth that Canon, et. al. have never delivered a lemon and are instantaneously responsive, as a foil to RED.

I've spent many thousands of dollars and have enjoyed many Canon cams over the years (still do). But let's deal in facts, not myths. If Canon had a forum where they freely allowed their customers to air grievances about non-working gear. They don't have one, ergo you don't get to hear the complaints first-hand, conveniently located in one place.

Patrick, without yelling, I find your refusal to reload the firmware rather strange. Are you more committed to solving the problem or bitching about RED's QC process? If you have been a user for as long as you say, then you will have read many threads where a simple firmware and clearing of the brain has fixed many problems instantaneously. Your refusal to even try a simple solution when it has been repeatedly suggested and has a long track record of success, seems unnecessarily stubborn.

The things people are saying here are attempts to help. I think Tim is suggesting that you take some steps to establish a personal relationship with the company. I don't understand why people are mocking this approach. It works. Everything about making films successfully is about building relationships - this isn't rocket science, it's what makes productions move forward. Tried, tested, and true.

Can RED improve? Yes, always. I've had occasionally uneven customer support results, usually when I'm between Bomb Squadder and have not, as Tim suggests, built up that relationship. Should that burden be placed on us? Probably not, but given that RED has adopted the personal attention approach, Tim's advice is solid and it works.
Click to expand...
 
Meryem Ersoz said:
I had an Canon XL2 arrive totally dead, which made a clunking noise when I tried to power it up. And they required plenty of documentation before they finally admitted the problem and replaced it.

I bought an EOS adapter for that camera which quit working shortly out of warranty and was stuck with a dead unit which I would have had to pay a repair for, in order to sell. It's sitting on a shelf for all these years.

So let's quit perpetuating the myth that Canon, et. al. have never delivered a lemon and are instantaneously responsive, as a foil to RED.

I've spent many thousands of dollars and have enjoyed many Canon cams over the years (still do). But let's deal in facts, not myths. If Canon had a forum where they freely allowed their customers to air grievances about non-working gear. They don't have one, ergo you don't get to hear the complaints first-hand, conveniently located in one place.

Patrick, without yelling, I find your refusal to reload the firmware rather strange. Are you more committed to solving the problem or bitching about RED's QC process? If you have been a user for as long as you say, then you will have read many threads where a simple firmware and clearing of the brain has fixed many problems instantaneously. Your refusal to even try a simple solution when it has been repeatedly suggested and has a long track record of success, seems unnecessarily stubborn.

The things people are saying here are attempts to help. I think Tim is suggesting that you take some steps to establish a personal relationship with the company. I don't understand why people are mocking this approach. It works. Everything about making films successfully is about building relationships - this isn't rocket science, it's what makes productions move forward. Tried, tested, and true.

Can RED improve? Yes, always. I've had occasionally uneven customer support results, usually when I'm between Bomb Squadder and have not, as Tim suggests, built up that relationship. Should that burden be placed on us? Probably not, but given that RED has adopted the personal attention approach, Tim's advice is solid and it works.
Click to expand...
in a professional world people not after for personal relationship with camera company..all they want is working camera.Do you think rental companies trust Red? maybe %5 of them :) (small ones) Red had bad reputation and its getting worse day by day.After people working with Alexa F65 etc. you cant say them whopps something is fishy i gotta restart camera now just 10 seconds..Maybe you dont care for 10 seconds but professional people cares.Not every Red owner is hillbilly indie filmmaker..
 
You are missing my point, Kemalettin. I didn't offer an opinion about whether I think the Bomb Squad/personal approach is a good idea or a bad idea. I am agnostic - it has had both its great moments and its not-so-great moments for me, personally, but it is what it is - and I think it is wrong to mock Tim for offering up his insights on how to make a flawed system work to its maximum advantage. I'm interested in solutions and efficacy, not opinions. Dealing in facts, not the world as I wish it to be.

I'm not a hillbilly indie filmmaker, so I'm not sure who you are referring to, with this comment -

my last four commercial gigs have been for Conoco, Audi, this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcQwIxRcaYs&feature=plcp - and a national pro cycling challenge.

I am simply suggesting that the filmmaker should examine whether he is more committed to forum busting or to shooting a working camera.

I trouble-shoot gear all the time, and the people who I respect in this industry are people who don't quit until every possible effort is made to find solutions to problems. I just find it odd to disavow and to mock tried and true possible solutions.

All of the professionals who I know persevere. It is a top-rated quality of successful people in this business. Hillbillies quit and whine. Professionals exhaust every possible option on the road to a solution first.

Only after that has happened, are they entitled to whine. Perseverance gives their whining credibility.
 
Wow...

Tim Whitcomb said:
Keys to great experience with RED if you have a problem. - 100% succss rate in 4 years.

1. Dont post the problem here first
2. File a support ticket with tech support AND your Bomb Squad rep
3. Vent all of the above concerns Privately and thru email
4. give them a chance to remedy and fix it.
5. Avoid coming on here to complain except as a last resort and/or if RED is slow to respond
6. If you do have no choice but to post... then Try to avoid negative verbiage like "lemon" and other drama filled descriptions (this is especailyl true BEFORE the problem is diagnosed or you are just spreading FUD for competitors and TROLLS
7. Be succinct in the description of issue as others may be able to help...


Postong publicly "Oh man Ill never trust this on a job" does not give me confidence to offer help, especially as its obvious you came here first and didnt give support a chance to respond to your issue.

You seem to have convinced yourself its catastrophic before any confirmation of the problem.. this may lead to stress and health problems. You have a warranty, stuff happens.

Misery loves company and not surprisingly several jumped on here with more negative comments. Again,, nothing wrong with being disappointed, but airing your issues before giving them a chance to remedy seems wholly unfair.

Good luck with your issue, I trust it will be resolved as i also know REd goes above and beyond to make things right. By far the best camera service I have ever received from any company... give em a chance!
Click to expand...
 
Meryem Ersoz said:
my last four commercial gigs have been for Conoco, Audi, this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcQwIxRcaYs&feature=plcp - and a national pro cycling challenge.
Click to expand...

did you bring a back up body to each shoot?
in LA one of the reasons the alexa is used so much more then red is that (besides all the other differences) price was never an issue...because you always have to have 2 epics on set anyway.....chances of one failing are pretty good...might not, but...i ran into a dp who works a lot and who know that i have a red....first thing he said about the price drop was that now we can have a working camera on set for the original price....not funny....
if you look at the percentage of BT scarlets coming out with problems, especially after the delays because of QC, you really have to wonder what is going on....and the cameras aren't even on the latest firmware?! who runs these checks!
this is not about flaming, we are all in the same boat but jumping down people's throats because they ARE having issues is really not a solution either....
 
paul schefz said:
this is not about flaming, we are all in the same boat but jumping down people's throats because they ARE having issues is really not a solution either....
Click to expand...

I'm not jumping down anyone's throat. I'm suggesting a solution-focused approach to what appears to be a real issue. Try the solutions before you complain about the solutions. That is all.
 
Seems pretty straight forward to me. Guy had a problem, went to the forums to get an answer.
 
Meryem Ersoz said:
You are missing my point, Kemalettin. I didn't offer an opinion about whether I think the Bomb Squad/personal approach is a good idea or a bad idea. I am agnostic - it has had both its great moments and its not-so-great moments for me, personally, but it is what it is - and I think it is wrong to mock Tim for offering up his insights on how to make a flawed system work to its maximum advantage. I'm interested in solutions and efficacy, not opinions. Dealing in facts, not the world as I wish it to be.

I'm not a hillbilly indie filmmaker, so I'm not sure who you are referring to, with this comment -

my last four commercial gigs have been for Conoco, Audi, this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcQwIxRcaYs&feature=plcp - and a national pro cycling challenge.

I am simply suggesting that the filmmaker should examine whether he is more committed to forum busting or to shooting a working camera.

I trouble-shoot gear all the time, and the people who I respect in this industry are people who don't quit until every possible effort is made to find solutions to problems. I just find it odd to disavow and to mock tried and true possible solutions.

All of the professionals who I know persevere. It is a top-rated quality of successful people in this business. Hillbillies quit and whine. Professionals exhaust every possible option on the road to a solution first.

Only after that has happened, are they entitled to whine. Perseverance gives their whining credibility.
Click to expand...

of course i didnt referred you as hillbilly.just wanted to say its nonsense since the guy got his camera and had problem then started looking for solutions in the forums.He could be me (got scarlet bt too) he could be you.He just wanted working camera not much.Sure he didnt buy that camera to write negative comments about icompany
What would you do when you get new car and after few days you understand there is a problem,you return it back or go to service and get fixed? and dont forget if you go message board of dodge to make a comment about it people will attack you right in there mods going to ban you in next 20min.what would you feel?
 
patrickortman said:
@Antonio- please do.
Click to expand...

Ok guys, here's an update: Camera has been working fine, no more issues. Regardless of that, the Red team in the UK has now responded in the nicest possible way to my rant. As I'm going through a busy patch at the moment, they just gave me all the details so the camera is shipped over to them as soon as I am able to, which is great. They will have a look for any issues, so I feel well looked after now. I thought I would post this.
 
patrickortman said:
Well, I can say that RED has ALWAYS provided killer customer support to me in the past, so I am sure if my Scarlet's a lemon they'll refund me if I want, or do a swap if I want. I'm not worried about that. More worried about having bad stuff happen on set, esp. since I do a lot of traveling and cannot afford/justify two Scarlet/Epics in case one goes bad.
Click to expand...

Things will get sorted, do not worry about that.

But also, more important do remember. Owning a camera and bringing it to a set comes with a complete new set of responsibilities than "just being a DP". As a DP with a non working rented camera throws his hat and and look towards the producer and gets a new camera. While a DP that brings his own camera to a set and has problems with it, and does not solve it smoothly, usually do not see that producer again...

So if the work is important to you, then take precautions. however I find these cameras to be better work horses than most.
 
This is probably an irrelevent comment but here goes. History has shown us that pioneers who put in the hard yards in evolutionary R & D, do not always harvest appropriately on their investment. No one goes out of their way to injure you with a faulty product. The developer often keenly feels an even deeper sense of betrayal when something proven and ready to be set free has set an ambush all along. An example a few would remember is JVC and their then groundbreaking GY-HD100 camcorder product family. The split screen defect injured the brand's reputation for a good long time.

In a microcosmic scene compared to world events, whilst the Vietnam conflict was headlining, a company which called itself Robertson Northern Services commenced running a bus service from Perth to Port Hedland and return over what were then unpaved and underdeveloped roads. Up until then, air at $60-30 or sea at $61-00 was the way to go besides trashing your family car on the rough roads. RNS did not endure for more than a few years from memory. Once the route was proven, Greyhound and Ansett Pioneer entered the market with battletested GMA cruiser buses and RNS became a bit of history that few others than myself raise up. Whether RNS went away and was replaced or with it was outcompeted I do not know.

The legendary DeHavilland aircraft company, responsible for some legendary aircraft essentially pioneered the modern pressurised jet airliner, however this aircraft had a fatal flaw which was not readily apparent. DeHavilland also pioneered at great expense, a testing regime which discovered the Comet airliner's achilles heel. However, DeHavilland did not achieve the sort of market that Boeing grew with its 707 airliner, which evolved to be a safe and reliable aircraft on lessons learned from the Comet. DeHavilland as a marque is no more.

So where does REd fit in all of this ? You work it out. Whilst I am not a RED owner nor likely to be for the foreseeable future, I think respect is due to the pioneers of Silicon Imaging and P+S Technik for the original SI2K digital cinema camera and Jim Jannard and the RED project for taking it to the next level. I think both entities have done well to be still in the game after eight years or so. Whilst there will always be aggrieved buyers and users when a new innovation takes a swing at them instead of doing its job, I think people need to take care not to talk down the product too emotively lest their prognistications develop into a self-fulfilling prophecy.

People doing the troubleshooting may become so beaten over the head with the hank of fencing wire as to give up and move on because there remains no pleasure in it. That would serve no one well. Jim Jannard saw an unfilled need and therefore an opportunity. He is a businessman after all. He also undertook this adventure for his pleasure it seems for his initial petitioning for user wishlists on dvinfo.net was at a personal level. If the pleasure becomes subsumed to pain, don't expect him or his tram to hang around on this sidestreet if selling to a competitor becomes the least painful option.

He has the potential for at least one more personally pleasureable great adventure. The clock however is ticking before that opportunity expires and the remaining aspiration is to go into the home, the kitchen to give him jellified coffee to shluck up through the spout of a baby cup and the occupational therapist to hand him sheets of used bubble wrap to pop. So don't tempt him - unless of course he moves into mainstream movie production and distro. That might even give a few of you some jobs, maybe me too - tasked as an intern polishing the honeywagon with toothbrush and cotton tip whilst furtively side-glancing like a hero-worshipping gollum at the amazing shoot going on nearby.

Yep I know. - I am more a writer than lensmonkey but I can at least dream. That's what we all do best. Those who realise those dreams are worth watching when they do it with grace and respectfully.
 
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