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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

I love the master primes, BUT...

Lenny Manfred

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there is one gigantic disadvantage of the master primes: they are very, VERY sensitive. they need to be constantly maintained, and can easily go out of alignment, and to fix them you have to send them to germany.

i rented a couple of them from a local rental house for a one day shoot, to try them out, and i loved the look, but, a few days after i returned them, i got a call from the rental house that apparently one of the lenses had been dropped. I knew that was not true, because the lenses never left my side, and the whole day i shot in one place, with the camera on a dolly, so i asked them to let me examine the lens, and, there was not a single mark on it anywhere. i questioned them further, and talked to another rental house, and i learned that, apparently, just normal transport in a foam case, can shake one of the master primes out of alignment, apparently even crushing some bushings or something inside, that will end up costing the renter (me) around $1,700 in repair. i also learned that Zeiss recommends these lenses not be transported in a foam case, but rather suspended, and not facing down, but rather sideways. (the rental house later agreed to settle for $1,000, but still...)

now, you have to understand, i owned a full set of digi-primes for a couple of years, and sold them (to this rental house) and they where in perfect shape, so i know how to take care of things. so this damage must have happened in the case given to us, during normal transport in my equipment van, because that is the only possible time that this could have happened, and i tell you, i never dropped the case either. apparently the ultra primes can take a lot more use.

i like these lenses, they look great, and reminded me of my old digi-primes, but i suggest you treat them very carefully, unless you live near or in Germany, and when you rent them, get plenty of insurance, and a low deductible, because you very well might need it.

on a separate note, the producer that hired me for this job refused to cover the damage because, as he put it, "we did nothing wrong", and, because i did them the favor of picking them up, and somehow it came under my name (even though they booked them and gave them their insurance info), somehow this ended being my responsibility, and i got stuck with the bill. never again.
 
In my experience, the mechanical design and manufacture of the Master Primes is as robust as any current Arri/Zeiss product, such as the Ultra Primes and the Digi Primes.
 
Could be that floating aspherical surface elements that were employed in Master Primes

have got somehow "re-moved" out of its "right" position during transportation shake.

The lens should be re-collimated by Arri/Zeiss service in Germany.
 
Wow! What a headache for just a one day shoot.
 
This was one of the discussions I had before buying ultra primes.

They are supposedly, in terms of moving glass, as complicated as small zooms. They also are so f**king sharp that any problem will be immediately apparent.

Also after speaking to somebody who has been inside them, loves them and promotes them I am less disappointed we made our UP choice.

The service limitations of MP do worry me a little. (as a owner/user... obviously Mitch and abel cine would not need to be concerned) As I would like to add a few to our kit for certain work.

Wide open they are amazing! I watched No country for Old Men and there is some wide open stuff night work you just couldn't get the same results any other way...

Sorry to hear about your cost...

regards

Michael L

PS I thought the tread was going to be 'I love the master primes, BUT... they flare horrible (when you actually get them to flare)
 
I've used the master primes in all manner of locations, on all sorts of rigs ( Steadicam, crane, handheld , car rigs etc) on long and short jobs and I've never had a problem with them or found them to be out of collimation, and they've been bounced around a lot. They can be unforgiving on your focus puller when working wide open but the same could be said of any lens at t1.3
 
I just had a talk with one of the best lens technicians in the EU about the MPs. He told me in plain english that they are "very fragile"! So there you have it.....

i told you, i am not making this up. plus the other issue is that Zeiss does not want service people or rental houses to work on these lenses themselves, so you have to be sending them back to Germany, which is costly, takes longer, and it's a pain.

suspension, as i understood it, is the way they ship in their original boxes. air suspension. they have these bubbles that attach to the foam with holds the lenses. this is how really sensitive scientific equipment is shipped.

stephen murphy, i am happy that your experience is different. reminds me of the story about this grandmother who smoked a pack of cigarettes every day of her life and lived to be 90, that does not change my opinion on cigarette smoking. have you had them evaluated? the one i used looked fine to my eyes, the footage looked fine, but it was, oh, so slightly out of alignment, that you could only tell by projecting it. maybe if you have them checked you will find out they are not up to spec, or maybe yours are great.
 
i told you, i am not making this up. plus the other issue is that Zeiss does not allow service people or rental houses to work on these lenses themselves, so you have to be sending them back to Germany, which is costly, takes longer, and it's a pain."

And oh I tried to tell you: He works on them every day! And not in germany....
Any way thau does not speak with two tongues..they are indeed brittle ones ;-)

Best
JJ DP EU
 
ive worked with Lenny as a DP using his gear and im the first to say he the "most delicate " owner user ive ever worked with...So i have to believe you lenny. On the other hand times are tough in LA but thats kinda weak of B&S but since tobenkian left that place isnt the same. should just concentrate on their P2 business and leave the master primes to the real houses.So nickel and Dime
 
It's said that Master Primes are very fragile. That doesn't mean they're not nice lenses but they do need some TLC and the only way of doing that TLC is through lens technicians that knows them. One of them being the one JJ is mentioning.

So yes, they're definitely not for anybody and yes the Ultra primes are a safer a bet. It's very obvious that MP's will be a little more fragile then the UP's considering the glass that needs to move around.
 
Hey Lenny

I am not making this up...

Brand new set of Master Primes from SIM Video in Toronto. Took them around the world - twice - as checked baggage.

Not a single problem.

We did have some issues with the 16mm not lining up with the others "before" we left. ARRI serviced them in town.

So I guess there are two sides to every story.

...and I am not a salesman.
 
hey, Sergio, good to hear from you.

please, to be clear, i am not saying not to use them, they look like nothing else i have worked with (i hear the Leica-Dalsa are even prettier, but i haven't had the pleasure), all i am saying is get plenty of insurance, with a low deductible.

me, it will take me a while to want to use them again, because i was left with a $1,000 worth of bad taste in the mouth.
 
Hey Lenny

I am not making this up...

Brand new set of Master Primes from SIM Video in Toronto. Took them around the world - twice - as checked baggage.

Not a single problem.

We did have some issues with the 16mm not lining up with the others "before" we left. ARRI serviced them in town.

So I guess there are two sides to every story.

...and I am not a salesman.

Of course. I don't think anyone is saying that they will break as soon as you look at them, but they are more fragile then for example UP's
 
Anyone know what the technical cause of this problem could be? I'm interested in getting 2 master primes and would hate to have these issues. Also can cooke or angenieux lenses be serviced in America?
 
I confirmed my experience with our top lens tech before I posted. I am not a salesman or even in our Sales Department. I am the Applications Specialist at Abel, which means I help people use the best technology for their needs. I also test a lot of new gear, see how it interacts with other gear plus functions with the way real crews wish to use it. Often this has me at odds with manufacturers when I tell them that something is wrong and they should alter a device.

There are many politics involved in things in this world, and then there's also politeness. It would take a lot for me to say something negative about a product, especially in a public forum. I'm happy to remark on the positive but reluctant to comment on the negative. Perhaps sometimes my silence can be a measure unto itself, and there has been more than one manufacturer that had to learn to eat it when I would not "toe the line."

If I say I have not had the negative experience on Master Primes, then it is because I have not. Sorry for the rant.
 
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