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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Huge Weapon Mg Audio Issues

Milan Spasic said:
Point #2: Basic audio features that we were enjoying on Epic/Scarlet/Dragon cameras are GONE and now come at the size/weight/$$$$ premiums.
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Honestly, the difference between Epic/Scarlet/Dragon cameras and the DSMC2 line is the loss of Phantom power and the gain of scratch mics. This trade off works very well for me.
The mic level input is the same between DSMC and DSMC2. So, really, all this noise is for the loss of Phantom power?
 
Don't want to take this thread in a different direction. I understand where you're coming from Milan as well. My question being somewhat related to Fredrick. I'm not much of an audio guy and we always hire out / record seperaerly on important interviews or jobs where highest level of audio is key. For the smaller ones or run and gun we usually just throw our shotgun on and go. So on the SW W/ V mount would WC's a-box solve this issue giving me phantom power as well then?. Just want to clarify!
 
So are other people having the issue that the internal scratch mics are incredibly low? I am talking that even with it cranked up in camera, I still have to majorly crank up the gain in post to get a level. Trying to figure out if it's supposed to be this way (not sure why it would be) or if MG's are the only ones that seem oh ave this problem.
 
Stephen Matthews said:
Why not try a battery belt clip and vmounts instead of rv expander? Does it not work woth weapon? Always find it interesting how few people realise how great it is I even made a clip for it to attach to the back of the camera, and I have a lens belt that I put it on when I want a lighter more mobile setup, or clip it to my tripod when stationary. Also as I have been shooting a lot in cold conditions this year it allows me to put the batteries in my jacket and stay warm while powering te camera reducing battery drain greatly. May not be perfect but a great way to get power in a versatile and affordable way. Sorry to hear about the other issues can't speak to them or a solution as I have yet to own or use a weapon.

Have a good one! And stay passionate!
Click to expand...


I was thinking about going back to the belt battery but I really grew to like the size of the Redvolt XL system (now that they fixed the charger and batt read out issues) for the jobs that require hiking/climbing/snowboarding/skiing which is what I presume you also do.

With the side handle, Redvolt XL and EVF, the Epic felt really good and compact for run and gun missions. Hence my dissapointment with the Weapon in the audio department. I've been using a compact Sanken for scratch that I love the sound of. Now back to powered mics and more batteries and things to charge and break, no balanced input etc...

Cheers Stephen!
 
Daniel Stilling said:
Honestly, the difference between Epic/Scarlet/Dragon cameras and the DSMC2 line is the loss of Phantom power and the gain of scratch mics. This trade off works very well for me.
The mic level input is the same between DSMC and DSMC2. So, really, all this noise is for the loss of Phantom power?
Click to expand...

Wouldn't you consider not having something that was there in previous models a step back?
The most common complain that I have heard is that the internal audio is too low and so is the external sound and when pushed to 0 dbs it gets really noisy. I think that is valid concern after paying hard earned money.
Look if you are filming a movie double sound its normal, but for documentary, interviews, low budget commercials, etc. you want good voice sound in camera.
Its nice to have a new toy as soon as it comes out, but I'm holding off until the kinks are taken out. (Audio, ProRes incompatibility and split screen, battery incompatibility, FCP/Premier plug in, HDMI and side pogo)
I'm sure RED will fix it and when they do I'll put my order in.
 
Sean Tierney said:
Don't want to take this thread in a different direction. I understand where you're coming from Milan as well. My question being somewhat related to Fredrick. I'm not much of an audio guy and we always hire out / record seperaerly on important interviews or jobs where highest level of audio is key. For the smaller ones or run and gun we usually just throw our shotgun on and go. So on the SW W/ V mount would WC's a-box solve this issue giving me phantom power as well then?. Just want to clarify!
Click to expand...

The problem is the Base Expander, which does not support phantom power, balanced or line-level audio.

Maybe they should rename it to Amateur Expander Module since everything else is stamped PRO. :)
 
Just to clarify, I always used a Sound Devices 302 on my Dragon too as I felt the preamps werent great. Same deal with he Weapon. Don't need the camera to have phantom power as I have the 302 to handle that. So, it hasn't been 2 steps back for me.
 
Bob Gundu said:
Just to clarify, I always used a Sound Devices 302 on my Dragon too as I felt the preamps werent great. Same deal with he Weapon. Don't need the camera to have phantom power as I have the 302 to handle that. So, it hasn't been 2 steps back for me.
Click to expand...

Bob, I used MixPre on the Weapon yesterday because I wanted to use the Sanken shotgun, which is not powered.
So when you send the reference tone to your Weapon what do you get?

I used to be able to do this on the Epic and be able to match levels on the mixer and camera. On the Weapon, no can do. The levels are way too hot even at 0dB.
Sure, you can turn the output down on the mixer, but that's not right. Thoughts?
 
Milan unless I am confused I was never able to send line level in to our Epics. Also I do not think (but I am not an audio guy) it is standard practice to send a +4dbv output to a non ballanced input. Surely you need to set the mix pre output to a domestic non balanced line level
 
Milan Spasic said:
Bob, I used MixPre on the Weapon yesterday because I wanted to use the Sanken shotgun, which is not powered.
So when you send the reference tone to your Weapon what do you get?

I used to be able to do this on the Epic and be able to match levels on the mixer and camera. On the Weapon, no can do. The levels are way too hot even at 0dB.
Sure, you can turn the output down on the mixer, but that's not right. Thoughts?
Click to expand...

Just to make sure, did you try the TA3 unbalanced mic output? That should be what you're after, as you want unbalanced mic level, rather than balanced line level.
 
Milan, I've got a great solution for you that will give you what you have been asking for. Sell your weapon and buy a used Epic! Boom. Put some money in your pocket and get the small and light camera you want with the balance of features you want without 3rd party solutions or modules. Options!
 
Jeffrey M said:
Milan, I've got a great solution for you that will give you what you have been asking for. Sell your weapon and buy a used Epic! Boom. Put some money in your pocket and get the small and light camera you want with the balance of features you want without 3rd party solutions or modules. Options!
Click to expand...

Jeffrey, I have a suggestion for you.

If you don't have anything productive to bring to this thread, just don't say anything at all.
It's best for everybody.

Thanks.
 
Thanks for the thoughtful private message asking me not to post on here. While I do admit to being a bit sarcastic in my previous post, I was also offering up a genuine solution to your problem. It seems you just want to complain rather than listen to everyone trying to help you find a solution that you may find acceptable. I'm sorry if I have so easily offended you. Best of luck finding a solution.
 
Guys. No need to begin this kind of stuff.

The way I am reading this thread is that Milan is a bit frustrated at a couple of things with the audio on his new camera. People offer up third party solutions and he is feeling it's RED thing to tidy up. His camera is going back to RED.

Ultimately without this kind of feedback RED would not be able to improve their products and it seems they have responded.

Let's just keep it toward what might be useful contributions. Personally, I had mentioned, way back before weapon, that the base expander would have been great with two mini XLR inputs (yes, i'd actually like to see those brought back) with MIC/LINE swithcable in software. That with the two front mics would have "beefed up" the audio capabilities of the new camera and offered even more value to the upgrade. Many people, including myself, need a small lightweight solution with very decent audio capabilities onboard. I would have liked to see red move from mini stereo plugs to mini XLR because I think it is more professional. Maybe even offer a pigtail cable for Full XLR to mini XLR.

Personally, I don't want modules for what are basic audio functionality.

The base expander allows ONE stereo minplug connection for keeping a small package (the EPIC Dragon has two) which gives a failsafe. Now, had that even been 1 mini XLR, i think it would be more robust, no?

Anyhow, everyone shoots and everyone works differently and there are times when you need to be able to record decent audio in camera, that is just a fact of nowadays.

If the internal mics aren't giving Milan what he needs them to do, then it is fair for him to say so.

David
 
Frederic B. said:
Thanks. Balanced would have been better. Have you or anyone noticed any hum?
Click to expand...

You would probably hear some hum if your cabling is more than 5 meters long. If your calbing is short, it shound'nt be a problem. (But I never tested next to a Wifi nor a HF video transmitter)
 
David Battistella said:
Personally, I had mentioned, way back before weapon, that the base expander would have been great with two mini XLR inputs (yes, i'd actually like to see those brought back) with MIC/LINE swithcable in software. That with the two front mics would have "beefed up" the audio capabilities of the new camera and offered even more value to the upgrade. Many people, including myself, need a small lightweight solution with very decent audio capabilities onboard. I would have liked to see red move from mini stereo plugs to mini XLR because I think it is more professional. Maybe even offer a pigtail cable for Full XLR to mini XLR.

Personally, I don't want modules for what are basic audio functionality.

The base expander allows ONE stereo minplug connection for keeping a small package (the EPIC Dragon has two) which gives a failsafe. Now, had that even been 1 mini XLR, i think it would be more robust, no?

David
Click to expand...

100% agree.

The mini-XLR's have a proven track record. The idea of (1) mini XLR on the base expander would have been sweet and a problem solver.
This way, only one mic for quick setups and you can leave the mixer in the bag.

I would add phantom power to the wish list.
Most of my mics are looking for it.
 
Thanks David for your post, much appreciated and straight to the point.

Anyone has some updates about the internal mics extremely low levels??

Will this issue be resolved?

Thanks!
 
Thanks David and +1 on the mini-XLRs for the Base Expander with Line/Mic enabled.
Not only that would make the upgrade a better value but would allow us to use the camera in a professional environment while keeping the size small.

I'm tired of audio guys hating on us every time we bring cameras to set.
At least they don't complain about the fans anymore. :)


Tommaso Alvisi said:
Thanks David for your post, much appreciated and straight to the point.

Anyone has some updates about the internal mics extremely low levels??

Will this issue be resolved?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

My camera went back to the mothership last Friday after they looked at the log. Something's not right with internal mics.
I'll report back when I learn more.

Cheers.
 
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