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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Huge Weapon Mg Audio Issues

Milan Spasic

Milan Spasic

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I don't even know where to start.

Internal mics are unusable. Levels uneven, even when linked. No dB reading (reading 0). Cranked all the way up and barely audible.

Rear analog inputs are almost unusable. When sending line level from mixer, peaking into red at 0dB
All kinds of weird interference on monitors. No limiters. No phantom power.

WTH is going on? Is it just me?


Latest release firmware / base expander module / A-Box
 
Last edited:
Milan Spasic said:
I don't even know where to start.

Internal mics are unusable. Levels uneven, even when linked. No dB reading (reading 0). Cranked all the way up and barely audible.

Rear analog inputs are almost unusable. When sending test signal from mixer, peaking into red at 0dB
All kinds of weird interference on monitors. No limiters. No phantom power.

WTH is going on? Is it just me?


Latest release firmware / base expander module / A-Box
Click to expand...

ive noticed on S-W that the levels and all that looks and sound fine on camera (plugging in headphones to the base I/O) but then after recording the audio seems hella low and stuff... I was wondering the same,
 
I'm using the same audio arrangement as you, but having good results as long as I feed the camera a mic-level signal.

Perhaps you are feeding line level, which the base expander can't handle.

BW
 
Ben Wolf said:
I'm using the same audio arrangement as you, but having good results as long as I feed the camera a mic-level signal.

Perhaps you are feeding line level, which the base expander can't handle.

BW
Click to expand...

I wish I've had a choice between line-level and mic-level. (see photos)

I'm not an audio engineer but I'm sure this is a huge step back.


25720992360_ee64a1c905_c.jpg


Line level:

25900833882_f84c9b862a_c.jpg


25900833172_6fb6a62cba_c.jpg
 
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Milan Spasic said:
Michael, see photo #2 above.
Click to expand...

On our weapons we would get the same levels behaviour when feeding line level (0db on a zaxcom output) associate with ballanced pro outputs... So I am assuming the picture shows you feeding in -20db tone with the red set at lowest input?

The only current solution is lowest setting with a -10db input... There is still a 2.3db discrepancy too hot but it has been fine in the limited recording we have done.

Ps we have not tested the internal mics but have noted they are a little low
 
Michael Lindsay said:
On our weapons we would get the same levels behaviour when feeding line level (0db on a zaxcom output) associate with ballanced pro outputs... So I am assuming the picture shows you feeding in -20db tone with the red set at lowest input?

The only current solution is lowest setting with a -10db input... There is still a 2.3db discrepancy too hot but it has been fine in the limited recording we have done.
Click to expand...

It's doable but it's definitely a workaround rather than a solution. Something is just not right and I guess Brent confirmed my fears.

Filed a support ticket but I'll have to power through the next shoot as is.

Michael Lindsay said:
Ps we have not tested the internal mics but have noted they are a little low
Click to expand...

Super low and uneven in my case.
 
The official response seems to be that this is just the way it is.

I've been told that if you want to have basic audio functions, like we used to have on Red One and Epic, you will have to spend $4k on a Redvolt Expander module.

Which defeats the whole purpose of having a small, light camera for documentary work, not to mention the extra cost for what used to be a part of the camera brain in the past.

This is is a serious kick in the nuts. Especially since the RV module is not even available yet.
 
I am getting decent audio (for scratch) both via the internal mics ( I think mine are set to 0-Db. ) I also sent audio through the rear jack via a mixer/pre-amp. I don't think you want to use the internal pre-amps on the camera. I did a video on an orchestra where the camera was surrounded by the musicians and the little mics on the camera sounded pretty good, but the sound was pretty close and loud.
 
Mark Andersen said:
I am getting decent audio (for scratch) both via the internal mics ( I think mine are set to 0-Db. ) I also sent audio through the rear jack via a mixer/pre-amp. I don't think you want to use the internal pre-amps on the camera. I did a video on an orchestra where the camera was surrounded by the musicians and the little mics on the camera sounded pretty good, but the sound was pretty close and loud.
Click to expand...


I can't even get levels out of internal mics. In a quiet room with two people talking, the right channel shows up barely, the left almost inaudible and this is with pre-amp maxed out on both channels.

The whole audio set up on the Weapon is a huge step back from previous cameras.

It really kills the camera versatility as far as I'm concerned.
 
Just an update as I did a sync sound shoot last night with weapon. We did double system sound but we also ran feeds into camera via the wooden camera a box. I had a real audio guy who had professional gear and the audio on the camera sounds perfect - totally great. I'm going to do a sync test tonight with the separate audio files , we used a tentacle box for timecode.
 
Jake Wilganowski said:
Just an update as I did a sync sound shoot last night with weapon. We did double system sound but we also ran feeds into camera via the wooden camera a box. I had a real audio guy who had professional gear and the audio on the camera sounds perfect - totally great. I'm going to do a sync test tonight with the separate audio files , we used a tentacle box for timecode.
Click to expand...



The Base Expander does not support line-level signal.
While you can work around it, it's definitely not designed to record professional audio, IMHO.
 
Well it certainly is ok in my opinion where your running master audio to cam. In higher end stuff your recording separately for sure. But this project I did sounded great straight to cam. Just my experience.
 
I'm having no issues with running mic level from sound op into channel 1 and 2. channels 3 and 4 ported to camera mics. the level is low on the camera mic but not bad really for a scratch track. In fact the sound op says the quality from the camera record is much better than with my Dragon. Seems an improvement from my point of view as now I get a scratch track without having to set up a mic on camera.
Maybe some issue with your camera mics?
 
Bob Gundu said:
It's 2012 all over again! :laugh:

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?69752-Mic-vs-Line-Audio
Click to expand...

Yup. Three steps forward, two steps back.


I really can't believe that we regressed on the audio front, again.


So is this a Base Expander hardware limitation or could it be corrected in the future via firmware updates like it was on the Epic?

To not have an option to currently run line-level or 48v phantom power on the Weapon is super sucky.


PS Red Support is looking into the camera log file, re:internal mics, it's most likely an abnormality.
 
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