How will Scarlet impact film/video in 2010?

[Jonathan Stevenson]

Scarlets aren't going to make Indy films "look" any better. In 5 years, there will be 1,000,000 Scarlet movies that will still have shit lighting, bad sound, poor writing, shitty acting, and lame editing. Owning a scarlet will make no one a professional overnight and you can't paint crap gold and call it bullion.

Nothing has changed. You still have to be talented to succeed.

 

[Zhibo Lai]

I wanted to added that is what I predict will happen is that Scarlet will level the playing field in terms of picture quality. Right now I see a lot indie films using the allure of Red One to attract more attention. Since the Red One is a huge leaps above what many indie filmmakers, at least in my area, are shooting with, so there's that allure to it.

Once Scarlet arrives and now every low-budget indie filmmaker owns one, the allure will be gone. No more will there be film ads with "shooting on 35mm film style digital camera, etc.." Well, maybe in the first few months until Scarlet really hits big time.

The ability to shoot cinema quality images will no longer be a selling point. People will then ask "well, so what, I have a Scarlet too. What else do you got going for your movie than a kick-ass camera? Do you have a good story, do you have good actors, do you have a professional crew? Do you have a decent budget, high production value, good sound, etc...?"

They'll still be plenty of amateurs and newbies who'll be sucked into the allure of this camera, but they will quickly realize that nobody cares they're delivering a film equiv digital cinema.

Right now as audiences content is king when judging a film. But as filmmakers, I feel that many are still hung up on tools than focusing on content. The scarlet will force the rest of those filmmakers to really get back to the basics, and content will be king for both audiences and filmmakers.

 

[GPSchnyder]

Perhaps in content. Not in production value.

Depends on what you see as Production Value.

George

 

[GPSchnyder]

Nothing has changed. You still have to be talented to succeed.

Yeah, right. But if you are talented and have some talented People to help you you don't need to kiss some Producers Ass to get your Film looking as good as you want ;-)

 

[J. Eric Camp]

Content will be the same. The capture medium will change. Thats all.

Talent, money and relationships will still drive quality products.

The only annoying thing for some will be that a giant chorus will erupt claiming themselves as filmmakers and content producers with a RED camera. I call this the guppy effect.

Say a pond has enough food for 20 big fish. When 200 guppies show up and each take one piece of food, some of the big fish will starve. One or two guppies may grow into big fish, the rest will die out but in the mean time some of the original big fish have died. Survival of the fittest. Some will deserve the chance to compete, many will only get to take their one chance and muck it up, but in the mean time will have stolen that "food" from a regular fish. Eventually things will die down and it will be business as usual.

I speak about business because true talent isn't solely bound by the tools.

Basquiat first survived by making tee shirts, post cards and doodling on napkins.

 

[Zhibo Lai]

I think it's a combo of Talent, Luck, and Who you know. Although an excess amount of one area could make up for a lack in another.

 

[Jerrod Cordell]

I predict that there will be a tidal wave or ridiculous depth of field shots, more or less inappropriate for the shot in question. I'm already seeing it in major productions now - where shallow DOF is sort of the sweetheart of techniques or something. I find it annoying when used flippantly, but absolutely awesome when used at the right time (but then I don't really notice it, because I'm engrossed into the story).

Hence the reason why I'm sticking with the 2/3" Scarlet. It seems to me like a sweet medium of DOF. You can obtain shallow DOF a hell of a lot easier than a 1/3" CCD camera, but it won't make shallow DOF overbearing. It'll keep shallow DOF where it belongs (in my opinion). Medium Shots and Close Ups.

Thats the way, uh huh, uh huh, I like it.

 

[GPSchnyder]

Hence the reason why I'm sticking with the 2/3" Scarlet. It seems to me like a sweet medium of DOF. You can obtain shallow DOF a hell of a lot easier than a 1/3" CCD camera, but it won't make shallow DOF overbearing. It'll keep shallow DOF where it belongs (in my opinion). Medium Shots and Close Ups.

Thats the way, uh huh, uh huh, I like it.

That's why I filmed my last feature with a FX1 and a HC1 without 35mm Adapters. They look too dof to me.

And I like the Look of 2/3" Cams for it's dof. In closeups and near shorts it's good and for wider shot's it's there, but only minimal, which I like a lot.

 

[Jerrod Cordell]

That's why I filmed my last feature with a FX1 and a HC1 without 35mm Adapters. They look too dof to me.

And I like the Look of 2/3" Cams for it's dof. In closeups and near shorts it's good and for wider shot's it's there, but only minimal, which I like a lot.

Exactly. And I can't stand 35mm adapters. I know of a very few people who can pull it off, but almost everything I've seen shot with a 35mm adapter has waaaaaay to shallow DOF.

It seems like there's a happy medium of DOF. There's a point where everything looks too sharp and looks very video, then there's a point where the background is too blurry and it just looks like you're trying too hard to make it look like film.

 

[Lawrence Bansbach]

The 3k are only for stabilizing, or small zoom ins or Pan and zooms. This kind of stuff. That way you can work most of the time on a tripod.

The 3K image that Scarlet produces is pre-debayer. After debayering it's equivalent to about 2.1K, according to Jim Jannard. Furthermore, its sensor's native aspect ratio, 1.89:1, is the same as that of digital projection. If you want 16:9, you crop to 2,880 x 1,620, which will debayer to about the resolution of HD video. So there will be very little room for reframing after cropping for display format.

 

[Tim Whitcomb]

Lets not forget how much more Festivals will be clogged with even more crappy films...

As it stands, submitting to any festival without being "kissed" means a total waste of your submission $.

Case in point, in 1998, Sundance programmers were complaining they couldnt watch all the new films submitted... they were overwhelmed... and that was around 800 submissions!

Now its about 10X that number and rising every year.

With 100 staffers watching 4 films a day, 7 days a week (not likely) that would leave 4 weeks to watch all the films...(they have about 15 to 20 staffers) then sorting those 8000 down to the best 150 to 200... another couple months of screenings...for all the decision maker to watch them (and FYI 14 of 16 competitions films are now slotted for distribs) leaving maybe 2 films for them to choose out of 8000 that were submitted.

Depressed yet?

Then there is Sundance this year, where basically nothing was bought... and now those films have the lovely stigma of "soooo, you got into Sundance and didn't sell? hmmmm"

Really, one is better off renting a Camera and investing that $ in a bankable actor (or three)... IMHO.

MUST READ for all Indie filmmakers: Down and Dirty Pictures, the Rise of Independent film... by Peter Biskind.

Doesn't mean someone won't make a gem, but if I see one more Craigslist ad stating"
"Seeking cast and crew (no pay) for film to be submitted to Sundance", im going to flag it for a scam.

 

[J. Eric Camp]

Just to be clear:

If you shoot in 3k, you can do a full 3k debayer and end up with a 3k file.

The MTF of the RED Bayer pattern is 78% of the capture rez.
So yes you want to scale it down to roughly a 2.3k file for optimum sharpness and rendition.

 

[Jay Voutour]

Content will be the same. The capture medium will change. Thats all.

Talent, money and relationships will still drive quality products.

The only annoying thing for some will be that a giant chorus will erupt claiming themselves as filmmakers and content producers with a RED camera. I call this the guppy effect.

Say a pond has enough food for 20 big fish. When 200 guppies show up and each take one piece of food, some of the big fish will starve. One or two guppies may grow into big fish, the rest will die out but in the mean time some of the original big fish have died. Survival of the fittest. Some will deserve the chance to compete, many will only get to take their one chance and muck it up, but in the mean time will have stolen that "food" from a regular fish. Eventually things will die down and it will be business as usual.

I speak about business because true talent isn't solely bound by the tools.

Basquiat first survived by making tee shirts, post cards and doodling on napkins.

Won't the big fish just eat the guppies? :biggrin:

I agree with the talent statement. I mean, a hammer and chisel may seem old school, but give them to Michaelangelo and see what he does with them. Scarlet would be like replacing the hammer and chisel with an affordable water jet cutter. Unfortunately, not everybody is Michaelangelo...

I predict that when the next round of REDs is released, nothing will much change, at least where the quantity and quality of productions are concerned. Scarlet (2/3"CINEMA) is pretty much aimed at prosumers, i.e., the guys that currently use cams like HVX, XL/XH, EX. This segment is exponentially smaller than the consumers, who make 'films' with a camera as their only piece of equipment. So yeah, I don't see the production values or even quantity of video 'films' changing much just because of Scarlet. But I will say that it may mean we will see less of the 35mm adapter 'film-look'.

What I think will happen with the next release is that support for RED will grow. Immensely. The products, the workflow, enough to justify, methinks, a RED Store / Service Centre in a few more major cities. Or at least RED products being carried in more outlets (besides the usual suspects, eg B&H). I for one would love to see a RED store here (Toronto), cause the big stores here have sales reps on commission, who aren't always the most pleasant people to deal with.
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[Jerrod Cordell]

The 3K image that Scarlet produces is pre-debayer. After debayering it's equivalent to about 2.1K, according to Jim Jannard. Furthermore, its sensor's native aspect ratio, 1.89:1, is the same as that of digital projection. If you want 16:9, you crop to 2,880 x 1,620, which will debayer to about the resolution of HD video. So there will be very little room for reframing after cropping for display format.

He's talking about the image size, not resolution. If you crop 3K footage to 16:9, the luma resolution after debayer will still be 2.1K.

Just to be clear:

If you shoot in 3k, you can do a full 3k debayer and end up with a 3k file.

The MTF of the RED Bayer pattern is 78% of the capture rez.
So yes you want to scale it down to roughly a 2.3k file for optimum sharpness and rendition.

Yeah...what he said.

 

[David Rasberry]

For some of us Scarlet will make shooting for fun a more interesting and creative hobby. I have always wanted a camera like this. :biggrin:

 

[Tom Visser]

I too am greatly looking forward to the Scarlet. I just want to prepare everyone in advance for the horrendous and amateur content that I will bust out. Although I'm good at most things related to sound, I have no clue what I'm doing with a camera. But I do like to jump in head first, so Scarlet seems to be a good choice for me, assuming that my business can afford it when it comes out. I may have to consider the rental business in order to justify the cost, otherwise I'll have to stick with my Panny DMC-GH1 that I have decided to purchase ASAP.

 

[GPSchnyder]

The 3K image that Scarlet produces is pre-debayer. After debayering it's equivalent to about 2.1K, according to Jim Jannard. Furthermore, its sensor's native aspect ratio, 1.89:1, is the same as that of digital projection. If you want 16:9, you crop to 2,880 x 1,620, which will debayer to about the resolution of HD video. So there will be very little room for reframing after cropping for display format.

Well, I did the same with HDV (1440*1080) and did a 1920*1080 out. I'd say it only can get better, don't you think? ;-)

 

[Sean]

I too am greatly looking forward to the Scarlet. I just want to prepare everyone in advance for the horrendous and amateur content that I will bust out. Although I'm good at most things related to sound, I have no clue what I'm doing with a camera. But I do like to jump in head first, so Scarlet seems to be a good choice for me, assuming that my business can afford it when it comes out. I may have to consider the rental business in order to justify the cost, otherwise I'll have to stick with my Panny DMC-GH1 that I have decided to purchase ASAP.

Surely the volume of bad content can't get any higher. DV and HDV have truly saturated the world with poorly written, badly directed and sadly acted films. But now it will all look prettier. Maybe the lowly but good writers will finally have the last laugh. ;-)

 

[Jay Voutour]

DV and HDV have truly saturated the world with poorly written, badly directed and sadly acted films. But now it will all look prettier. Maybe the lowly but good writers will finally have the last laugh. ;-)

'Agreed on all counts'...said the lowly writer.
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[Jay Voutour]

Some people are thinking that it may be many months after release before anybody non-professional gets their hands on a Scarlet (any Scarlet). I think I agree.

Think about it. Because of the economy, industry players are going to look for the most cost-effective (the best bang-for-buck) image capturing solutions - enter RED. With 5000+ R1s in the field, the workflow learning curve is a non-issue, so it's probable that many productions will compliment their kit arsenal with Scarlets (2/3i, s35). There goes the first round of the cams, as they become the industry-standard b-cam (or main unit in smaller prods).

Then we have the professionals that operate outside of film - broadcast, commecial, event, doc shooters - that's the 2nd round (2/3i, s35) and the first round of Scarlet 2/3 Fixed. And not to open up a can of 8" worms, but I think it likely that adult filmmakers will be one of the biggest markets for the fixed-lens as well - I guarantee that more than one celebutante will 'accidentally' leak their home-made, shot-on-Scarlet pr0n video.

Then we have the serious hobbyists/prosumers, the ones that don't get paid for their passion, that have salivated over sexy renders for months, next in line, right behind all of the celebs that want to shoot their kids' soccer games with the Scarlet (Fixed, or s35 especially if it comes bundled with a zoom lens). Another guranatee - Tom Cruise will be seen with one of the first Scarlet Fixed lens. Remember how the celebs all flocked towards the HVX when it first came out?

But I could be wrong.
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