How to make money from internet distribution of movies?

[Mark B.]

You have high hopes… sorry but in what kind of world do you life? This is definitely not the way it will go… This is old thinking… the digital world works different.

Yes, I have high hopes. I live in a world that is complex, where high hopes help to keep a person going. I think according to logic, compassion, and emotion, embracing good ideas, whether old thinking or new thinking.

The digital world is an artifice, not the world we actually live in. People ingest movies with their analog minds, sitting on their analog seats, drinking analog water, laughing analog sound. They walk outside and soak up analog sun. Online delivery is just one tree in the forest.

 

[James T Mather]

I love my analog laptop - and the mahogany finish is lovely.

 

[Yannick Hagman]

In other words, show your movie in theaters but DON'T release it to DVD, TV, or any other medium that can be captured and duplicated by users.

Yes sure..

Except that theater means just marketing today (95 percent of all films lose money in theatre I assume) and it's a terrible expensive route to go. If you hardly can get the money together for an indie-flick you won't go to theatrical distribution. Someone may go this route, if it get's picked up. But you won't see a dime.

 

[Mark B.]

Lol. Who uses Usenet? P2P is the key.

OK, ISPs filter P2P traffic - that was alrady solved: the P2P client encrypts the traffic and changes the code every time - the ISP doesn't have clue what is going on.

Do you think that a real solution can be implemented that would last? LOL.

Yeah. If you can find the P2P seed, so can the government.

Don't make me laugh. The only solution would be to shut down the Internet or monitor it heavily, which would be Gestapo-ish.

And you think the powers-that-be aren't going in that direction?

They can download it again and the effect is the same - the download count increases and the artists are supported.

And... longevity?

We had SD DVD until recently, now we have HD and BluRay, soon enough we'll have 4K, and then 8K, etc....

Longevity? WTF is that?

Longevity is the expected length of time something can survive. In this case, the wear and tear on a disc over time due to dust, physical scratches and chemical deterioration will cause a certain limited time before the disc will no longer play.

Or do you want me to buy the same movie 10 times? For every new *K standard?

That would certainly help the income, yes. But, if you don't want to spend the money you could watch it on the earlier resolution instead of buying the movie every time it is released on a new format. Or, hold off on buying the movie until it reaches a format you're happy with.

No, I'll download it for free.

Perhaps, but will everyone else?

Wake up.

It's late, I'm tired, so maybe not.

Then release it completely for free. That won't hurt humanity and I won't have any problem.

Dropping advertising revenues isn't an absolute cut from profits. If the disc were given away for free, there'd be no income from the movie, and so it would be difficult or impossible to make more movies, and society would suffer as a result. If I had enough money to make movie after movie, I probably would give them away for free.

 

[Mark B.]

Yes sure..

Except that theater means just marketing today (95 percent of all films lose money in theatre I assume) and it's a terrible expensive route to go. If you hardly can get the money together for an indie-flick you won't go to theatrical distribution. Someone may go this route, if it get's picked up. But you won't see a dime.

It would be interesting if independents each started their own theater for their own movies, possibly with some movie trading between owners to keep things in rotation. I wonder if that wouldn't result in better theater profits.

 

[Pietro Impagliazzo]

5) Incidental advertising ruins most art, because the raw commercialism of the ads will subjugate the original artistic message. A distribution method built around advertisements is not good for humanity, even though it might result in financial success.

You gotta be careful so as not to become a purist.

Looking at your script and identifying the ad possibilities won't subjulgate anything in your work.

I don't see the harm in it.

 

[Radoslav Karapetkov]

Yeah. If you can find the P2P seed, so can the government.

No, it can't... if the seed is smart... and they tend to be smart .

They can fake the IP... or use proxy... or fake the IP and the proxy... and another... and another... no borders.

With high speeds, all it takes is the seed to function for a couple of hours - then you have 100 000 seeds... what do you do of them? Soap? :shiftyph34r:

And what if the seed is in China?

Powerful is the Dark Side...

And you think the powers-that-be aren't going in that direction?

The nature of the Internet [no borders] renders the powers-to-be... totally powerless.... they're facing a Cloverfield monster.

Longevity is the expected length of time something can survive. In this case, the wear and tear on a disc over time due to dust, physical scratches and chemical deterioration will cause a certain limited time before the disc will no longer play.

With good encoding and maintenance - downloads are perfect and everlasting.

That would certainly help the income, yes. But, if you don't want to spend the money you could watch it on the earlier resolution instead of buying the movie every time it is released on a new format. Or, hold off on buying the movie until it reaches a format you're happy with.

I've done that enough.

Now I'm more inclined to download it for free in the highest format possible at the moment.

And I'll happily let the advertiser pay for my fun.

Perhaps, but will everyone else?

You're in for a surprise.

Dropping advertising revenues isn't an absolute cut from profits. If the disc were given away for free, there'd be no income from the movie, and so it would be difficult or impossible to make more movies, and society would suffer as a result. If I had enough money to make movie after movie, I probably would give them away for free.

I would do it for free too, but why not give some company a chance to advertise itself.

 

[Yannick Hagman]

It would be interesting if independents each started their own theater for their own movies, possibly with some movie trading between owners to keep things in rotation. I wonder if that wouldn't result in better theater profits.

Hardly. Theater only operate on popcorn sales. This means they have to attract masses. That works best with blockbusters. There are a few indie-kinos here, but they get support from the governement. And I've seen a lot closing down.

 

[Yannick Hagman]

I make a brave claim here: Seeders won't hurt much as long as it stays indie.

I use to listen to indie music. I almost find nothing on torrent sites. You still have to buy their CDs. There is no way around that. Except if a band gets bigger like the yeah yeah yeahs or editors for instance. The good thing is you still have your rights and operate on other margins as if you had sold to a distributor. Meaning you could probably absorb the black-market with as much profit as a studio.

 

[J.Burger]

Yes, I have high hopes. I live in a world that is complex, where high hopes help to keep a person going. I think according to logic, compassion, and emotion, embracing good ideas, whether old thinking or new thinking.

The digital world is an artifice, not the world we actually live in. People ingest movies with their analog minds, sitting on their analog seats, drinking analog water, laughing analog sound. They walk outside and soak up analog sun. Online delivery is just one tree in the forest.

Nothing wrong with that, I’m all with you… but still you have to be realistic. And after all… communication in the digital world offers some quit interesting new ways… e.g. look at this forum…

If new roads and vehicles are there – people will use them – and there should be nothing wrong with that… this should be just “normal nature”. The fact that we got used to a certain way in the past, doesn’t mean it has to stay that way, when new inventions come along… analog, digital or what ever …

The way we look at the copyright has to change if there are totally new ways of producing and distributing products… The free software movement has taken already some innovating steps… and Linux server are state of the art!

Still the filmmaker has to earn money to life and to make his next film… very true… It can’t be all for free and I personally don’t believe the advertising Industry will be the over all solution to help out with an income…

so innovating ideas are needed.

It would be interesting if independents each started their own theater for their own movies, possibly with some movie trading between owners to keep things in rotation. I wonder if that wouldn't result in better theater profits.

This is actually an idea I had before too. Let’s get tougher and start our own cinema and distribution company…
If we do it, we have to find someone how does the movies for us…

 

[Yannick Hagman]

Something interesting I read about STEAM (thanks impagliazzo) is following. They announced their profit margin of counterstrike over ordinary distributors and retail: 36%. Guess how much they make over STEAM: 80%. Other producers get 60-70% I guess. Counterstrike is a game produced by valve. The company created steam. A multiplayer and distribution site.

 

[Radoslav Karapetkov]

I make a brave claim here: Seeders won't hurt much as long as it stays indie.

Yes, this model would work best for indies, but I think it's also good for the majors.

Imagine IMDB.com with its pages for movies which also include... a download link.

Currently IMDB.com is said to be visited by 57 mln. people. If it also included download links, this number would very quickly become 570 mln. or more. :w00t:

That's a colossal potential for advertising, and the more popular the site becomes... the higher its rates would be for putting ads, thus = more money for the site itself and for filmmakers.

Of course, IMDB wouldn't be the only site, there will be others which will compete for audience.

 

[Yannick Hagman]

IMDB is owned by amazon.com

 

[J.Burger]

Hey – just in case:
here are some links to European online distribution websites which focus on documentaries:

http://www.doc-air.cz/
http://onlinefilm.org/
http://www.artfilm.ch/

 

[Yannick Hagman]

Thanks.

Feature-Film:
http://www.indieflix.com
http://www.createspace.com/ (Amazon formerly CustomFlix)
http://www.indiepix.net/

Here's a complete list.
Scroll at the bottom of the page:
http://www.scottkirsner.com/webvid/gettingpaid.htm

However the DVD-production and bad margins (for instance on vuze.com) eat away your profits.

 

[Radoslav Karapetkov]

Thanks, Burger.

 

[jpp]

I'm off to go to med school. watchout summer vacation - I'm gonna pack cancer's washbag and kick his ass down the stairs.

Don't encourage me, but I was thinking of a film festival panel - featuring the indie director getting his 14 minutes and 59 seconds of fame, the indie producer who had an involuntary hit in 1989 but has bombed ever since he's had the luxury of picking his own projects, the Hollywood agent who's never seen an indie film, and the programming director (what else). There's one of these at every festival.

So of course in the Q&A some kid asks the agent how to get an agent. The answer? Make a great film. Get it into Sundance. Sell it to a distributor for 7 figures. Have 4-5 great scripts ready to go. After that, it shouldn't be difficult.

I still remember the puzzled and hurt look on the guy's face, when everyone over 30 started laughing.

 

[Radoslav Karapetkov]

Another thing to consider.


There is a "Prologue" HD version of The Dark Knight, which circulates the pirate sites. It is actually the first 5-10 minutes of the film, in full quality.

AFAIK, this is released 100 % legally, aiming to increase the interest in the film.

Although I haven't watched the "Prologue", I like this approach very much.

And one more thing.

Many times when an illegal copy of a (good) new movie is leaked in the Net, people comment "Oh, this was great. I'm gonna watch it in the theater for sure".

Many times.

Then they go, pay the ticket, and watch the movie on the big screen.

I've done that too.

Many times.


Just saying...

 

[Cüneyt Kaya]

I've done that too.

Many times.


Just saying...

you criminal....hehe

 

[Radoslav Karapetkov]

Yeah, but I later paid for the cinema ticket.

Or maybe I should pay for every crap that comes out, just to make sure that it is actually.. crap.