How To Get Non RED CF Cards to Work?

[Peter Dmitriyev]

Is there any way to get a non RED official CF card to work in the Red One MX? The newest cards do very fast read/write speeds that are way faster than Red CF original cards so can anyone clue me in if this is possible or there's no way to do this?

 

[Gunleik Groven]

Yup.

Really hard to see an argument for RED to keep thisone under lock anymore...

 

[Gunleik Groven]

What is needed for this to work, is a firmware update from RED.

As long as RED sold upgrades to SSD's for R1, it kinda made sense to hold this off.
As you could get into the SSD program through RED.

But it is very hard to see any other result than holding people off a low-cost way to get into the RED ecosystem and workflows these days.

Of course a lot of people would choose a R1 if the media situation there was better (the spinning disks are dying and the 8/16 GB cards don't really cut these days when the BM micro can use 512 GB off-the-shelf SD-cards...

It seems more like a way to obsolete some of the still best cameras out there.

Don't want to clinch with RED on this, but by now (approaching weapon), this seems rather odd.

I'd think it was better that people got their feet wet on RED RAW and the workflow rather dan Cinema DNG, but what-do-I.know?

 

[ericyoung]

I agree this would be a nice EOL gesture to the remaining Red One owners out here who would like to keep them working affordably.

Either allowing third party CF cards with a display warning that the "CF card is unsupported. Use at own risk." And stating in the manual that users should do tests of their own on all the cards being used. Ie they actually record & playback for the full capacity without dropping frames.

Or write some sort of test mode in camera that users can use to do so, with prominent disclaimer that third party CF cards are not supported, and are used entirely at users risk.

Not holding my breath though!

 

[Gunleik Groven]

I wouldn't hold my breath either, but I hope it will happen.
Or that they open up the SDK on the R1 for people to add/write their own capture devices...

Hahahahahaha

Loooooong shot

 

[Joe D'Arcy]

I wouldn't hold my breath either, but I hope it will happen.
Or that they open up the SDK on the R1 for people to add/write their own capture devices...

Hahahahahaha

Loooooong shot

Is writing a firmware update to utilise the newer cards a difficult or time consuming process for Red? Or is it more of decision to let the early CF Redones slowly fade out of use as the hard drives fail over time?

 

[Peter Dmitriyev]

it sucks because yes at this point you can purchase a 512gb++ CF card and have it function as a SSD on an older R1 camera if they worked but apparently red does not allow the 3rd party cards

 

[Gunleik Groven]

REDs argument is rigorous media testing and that blame will come back to them if it doesn't work.

Now all of these cameras are out of guarantee time whatever way you look at it.
I guess there just isn't much incentive for RED to spend more manhours on development for these cameras.
And you probably not see many other companies do that either.

It would have been a bit more ok if the SSD module wasn't EOL'ed, because then you would have a relevant alternative with RED media.

But a 512 GB CF option definitely would breathe life into a lot of the current RED ONE doorstops...

 

[Mike Krumlauf]

What if us R1 owners signed a petition to show RED that there are enough R1 users still around wanting this feature? I can understand in a way them not wanting to do anything further with their first camera with scarlet/epic/weapon being there focus now, but maybe, just maybe, if they see the actual numbers of people still working with the R1 and wanting a firmware update to allow 3rd party cards, it may happen? I for one would LOVE this feature and in the long run, it would save me money instead of having to figure out down the road how to invest in an SSD module or one of the red drives.

 

[Patrick Grossien]

Well not that this is what you were looking for, but the SSD module for the R1 is still being sold:
http://www.red.com/store/products/red-one-ssd-side-module-2/750-0027

And with that, I'd say they probably done their duty to accommodate the R1 users for the next media step. Especially because I can understand that RED doesn't want to create themselves anymore trouble with media being sent in than they already seem to have. The request for non-RED cards came up every few months back in the days, but it would still be helpful to the R1 front if non-RED cards could be allowed by now. Especially for folks who got these used / cheap to step into the RED eco-system.

At least you can get the RED 16GB cards relatively cheap nowadays:
http://www.red.com/store/products/tactical-compact-flash-kit-12-pack

But since 512GB CF cards exist and 1TB SSDs are the norm, 16GB CF don't make too much sense anymore.

 

[Mendes Nabil]

Someone at Red can answer us please? We just need a firmware update that allow people to shoot with a card larger than "16Gb", there are plenty of them out there, and reliable as never before..

I was shooting some scenes few days ago and the Cf card didn't allow me to record at 4k 16:9, i had to increase the compression (36), it's a shame in 2015..

So what? Buying an SSd module? It coasts 1500$. Add to it two 48gb Redmags, the price goes to 2500$. We can buy a whole camera kit at this price (Sony A7s or Gh4).

Come on Red, we just need a little firmware update, you care about your customers so why acting like you don't?

 

[Maik Müller]

So what? Buying an SSd module? It coasts 1500$. Add to it two 48gb Redmags, the price goes to 2500$. We can buy a whole camera kit at this price (Sony A7s or Gh4).

Come on Red, we just need a little firmware update, you care about your customers so why acting like you don't?

While i support the request of allowing newer CF-cards, especially for the R1 with CF-module, i think your comparison isn't fair and the last sentence is misplaced. RED has proven that they care about their customers, especially R1-customers, so many times that saying they're acting like they don't care is just ridiculous. Sorry.

Come on, your request is fine, so a.) you don't need to exaggerate things and b.) nobody should actually expect such kind of support for a camera that is clearly EOL and get disappointed/angry when it isn't going to happen and c.) it doesn't help your case when you lose perspective.

RED's firmware developers have clearly other priorities right now, that should be understandable.

 

[Ryan Sauve]

I have no skin in the game (Epic-Dragon owner here) but with that being said, opening things up to 3rd party CF cards would be the ultimate EOL gift to R1 owners. If RED wants to maintain its differentiating qualities from other camera companies, this is a great way to do it. Their technological edge over the competition isn't what it once was and even though they revolutionized and led the charge on 4K acquisition, that ship has sailed. Time to find other clever ways to be awesome if they can't spark another revolution. Spend the little time and resources needed and get it done. It'll get good press and may even lower the barrier to RED entry for the new crop of budding filmmakers. Who knows, maybe one of them will land that elusive first cinematography oscar for a RED-shot film.

 

[Maik Müller]

I have no skin in the game (Epic-Dragon owner here) but with that being said, opening things up to 3rd party CF cards would be the ultimate EOL gift to R1 owners.

I agree. Thats a much better way to look at it.

P.S.: ...but it will open up discussions and requests for a CF-module for Scarlet/EPIC. Expect to see calculations of all kind and some kind of anger... ;(

 

[Gunleik Groven]

I agree. Thats a much better way to look at it.

P.S.: ...but it will open up discussions and requests for a CF-module for Scarlet/EPIC. Expect to see calculations of all kind and some kind of anger... ;(

THIS is proably REDs best reason not to do it. And also to avoid blame when something fucks up

 

[Mendes Nabil]

I have no skin in the game (Epic-Dragon owner here) but with that being said, opening things up to 3rd party CF cards would be the ultimate EOL gift to R1 owners. If RED wants to maintain its differentiating qualities from other camera companies, this is a great way to do it. Their technological edge over the competition isn't what it once was and even though they revolutionized and led the charge on 4K acquisition, that ship has sailed. Time to find other clever ways to be awesome if they can't spark another revolution. Spend the little time and resources needed and get it done. It'll get good press and may even lower the barrier to RED entry for the new crop of budding filmmakers. Who knows, maybe one of them will land that elusive first cinematography oscar for a RED-shot film.

Beautifully said Ryan, i can't make any better comment..

...but it will open up discussions and requests for a CF-module for Scarlet/EPIC. Expect to see calculations of all kind and some kind of anger... ;(

Sorry for that but, you're wrong. We are not asking for a whole new module, but for a "firmware update". The Red one has benefited of several firmware updates during its life, so why this particular one will legitimate Epic and Scarlet owners in their asking of a new module?

We are talking firmware here, not Hardware or new material, we are asking for something "immaterial"..


@Gunleik, do you know what the problem is concerning the 4k 16:9 at Redcode 42 ? Why can't we record at this setting? Can you link this thread to a Red member? Engineer or even Jarred..

This legendary camera deserves a legendary ending..

 

[Gunleik Groven]

Hi. I'd guess it is a datarate problem. I don't think we recorded 42@16:9 even to the red-drives. Capacity in the drives were not the bottleneck. Early SATA protocol perhaps?

All this said, I think it would be great to see some life breathed into the RED ones and let new kids play with them.
They still surpass most of new cameras in many ways. And could be a good introduction to the RED ecosystem.

I don't think me alerting Jarred or Graeme on this thread has any purpose. RED is well aware of this wish, and has made a decision thus far not to open up for non-RED media.

I am sure this is not on top at the current strategy meetings. But I also don't think it's like they don't know.

Mendes, have you ever considered getting hold of one of those drives?
(and the followup to the thread could be: why can't we replace the disks inside red-drives... Leave that )

 

[Mendes Nabil]

I don't know if people agree with that but, i'm personally ready to pay for this firmware update, if enough people can say that they are ready to pay too, maybe will they seriously consider it?

Ow, and i already have some Red drives, il will never use them again, i obtained dropped frames in a really important shoot, which got me into serious troubles.. So i swore that never again..

And someone said that 4k 16:9 at RC42 doesn't work even on SSD, can you point that problem to someone please? 4K WS is great, but nor for every projects..

 

[Gunleik Groven]

Did you get RC42 on the drives?

Avoiding dropped frames was part of shooting R1....
Oh the nostalgia...

I did Drive in Chopper. Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

 

[Mendes Nabil]

Ahahahaha! Yeah, what is nostalgia of some is the present of others

RC42 is not possible on SSD and CF (the only reliable media for the Red one). I didn't try on Red drives but even if it works (i'm sure it does not), i will not use them because of their poor reliability.

If someone at Red can give some clarity here, a lot of us would be really grateful..