how to achieve Low Key very soft light?

[Anthony Cote]

I love the look of the interior night scenes in The Social Network. I noticed in the behind-the-scenes there were a number of long and tall light banks. This is the type of lighting I want to invest in. I've been looking around B&H, and I'm liking the Smith-Victor softboxes (particularily the 600w, and 1000w x2 kit: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/438972-REG/Smith_Victor_401412_K71_Pro_Quartz_Studio.html)

Is this the right approach to lighting a set only with softboxes, or is there another technique with larger light banks that I should investigate? The descriptions of most softbox kits suggest that they can be used to portrait or small video setups, not making me confident that they could be used for larger living rooms. I'm sure this set up would be fine for medium shots and close ups, but for wider shots I'm not sure if these 3 lights used together could like the scene in that moody soft light.

Any advice or suggestions you can offer would be greatly appriciated!

 

[Rob Ruffo]

Uhm, I strongly suggest you start with some basic books on lighting.

The question you are asking, in my opinion, is a bit like asking a director's forum "Need advice on how to make hit movie. Is it about great actors, great script? Where do I find great script? Please advise."

You see what I'm saying? The answer would be at least 98 pages long.

 

[Ariel Weiss]

If soft-lighting is all we are going to have, cinema would be terribly boring. What about sun rays coming through the window? Or direct sun hitting the actor, slices of light coming through almost closed door etc...
Without hard light there is no hard shadow with defined patterns
and shape.

 

[Anthony Cote]

Uhm, I strongly suggest you start with some basic books on lighting.

The question you are asking, in my opinion, is a bit like asking a director's forum "Need advice on how to make hit movie. Is it about great actors, great script? Where do I find great script? Please advise."

You see what I'm saying? The answer would be at least 98 pages long.

I completely understand what you are saying. I realize now that my question did seem pretty vague and general. I think a key piece of information I left out is that I was asking advice to light specific scenes.

I am currently writing a script for a production class as an undergrad and have access to plenty of Arri and Lowell fresnel and flood lights, but only 2 250 watt softboxes. I think the effect I am going for in my night interior scenes is much like the moody light I saw in The Social Network, and was asking how would I light like that, seeing that they used a lot of softboxes and I could not spot any open-faced lights in the behind-the-scenes.

If soft-lighting is all we are going to have, cinema would be terribly boring. What about sun rays coming through the window? Or direct sun hitting the actor, slices of light coming through almost closed door etc...
Without hard light there is no hard shadow with defined patterns
and shape.

I love using windows and sun rays as natural light, and bringing up the general light in the room so that I can expose for the windows and have a beautifully exposed image with minimal highlights maybe in the sky. Hard light is a great tool in telling a story visually as well! Sorry I left this information out, I was asking a more specific situation, and since my school has plenty of hard, open-faced lights it makes sense to me to invest some money in several softboxes to even them out

 

[Ariel Weiss]

Hi
First, be careful with openface used directly, they are built for output and best suited to bounce. Exempt the new arri babymax (or 18k arrimax) in that regard which is an openface desined for direct lighting. So if hard light is to be used it is better to use a fresnel which evens out the light and makes it hard but not harsh. the bigger the fresnel lens the better.
As for soft lights, there are a lot of ways to achieve it and the first and most easy and cheap is to bounce off some white(soft) or silver (harder) card. Fill in the entire card (or diffusion shit)
because the larger your source in relation to the subject- the softer it gets. So large source and close as possible to the subject will give the softest light. Prepare very large gobos and
bloking options to control soft light so it doesn't flud your image, ruin the contrast.
There are kino and other soft lights but be prepared to soften kinos further with diffusion since they are not the softest
possible as is.
One more thing, do not confuse softness of light with It's intensity, you need a lot of power to have enough exposure after all the bouncing and diffusing etc. The low key is achieved by keeping the light off the places you want darker.
Hope this helps a bit.

 

[Roil]

You may get allot out of this interview with the Director Photography Jeff Cronewealth talking about lighting decisions in The Social Network, shooting on the RED with the MX sensor and a whole lot more.
http://scottfeinberg.com/wp-content/uploads/Cronenweth.mp3
You would recognize Jeff's visual style through Fight Club, 1 hour photo etc. Kind of a genius in his own mind, look up his other works too

 

[Bob Gruen]

Just to echo what Ariel stated, it is far better to buy hard lights because they can be used as soft lights via light modifiers. Soft lights cannot be made hard. Experiment with the school's hard lights before you go buying anything.

To really do it properly you need to over-light the scene with the plan of crushing it in post. This is done to minimize the noise in what would naturally be dark areas in the scene. And you are right that very soft light is what is needed to achieve this effect, to set the base level that everything else in the scene will be referenced off of.

Watching the behind the scenes stuff on a lot of DVDs is really revealing as to how hot Hollywood pros light scenes. I have a couple of filmmakers lighting DVDs and I'm surprised how little is conveyed on the subject. Crushing is not necessarily a linear process, so the more chances you have to play with this the better off you will be (to really learn it YOU need to both shoot it and crush it).

Bob

 

[Zakaree Sandberg]

Fresnel's are a better investment.. you get the hard light and then you create softlight through creative ways.. bouncing off boards, muslin, ceilings, walls, rags, frames with different assortments of diffusion. if you get softlights from the start, your sticking yourself into an interview look for all of your pet projects (where you arent renting other gear)... not a good idea

 

[Anthony Cote]

Hey everyone thanks for your advice, particularly this:

Just to echo what Ariel stated, it is far better to buy hard lights because they can be used as soft lights via light modifiers. Soft lights cannot be made hard. Experiment with the school's hard lights before you go buying anything.

To really do it properly you need to over-light the scene with the plan of crushing it in post. This is done to minimize the noise in what would naturally be dark areas in the scene. And you are right that very soft light is what is needed to achieve this effect, to set the base level that everything else in the scene will be referenced off of.

Watching the behind the scenes stuff on a lot of DVDs is really revealing as to how hot Hollywood pros light scenes. I have a couple of filmmakers lighting DVDs and I'm surprised how little is conveyed on the subject. Crushing is not necessarily a linear process, so the more chances you have to play with this the better off you will be (to really learn it YOU need to both shoot it and crush it).

Bob

Color grading my own footage has taught me how powerful post work with Apple Color and Magic Bullet Looks can be. I typically over-light, but there are times when it is difficult. But lighting it bright then crunching in post to make it dark is the plan.

also this:

Fresnel's are a better investment.. you get the hard light and then you create softlight through creative ways.. bouncing off boards, muslin, ceilings, walls, rags, frames with different assortments of diffusion. if you get softlights from the start, your sticking yourself into an interview look for all of your pet projects (where you arent renting other gear)... not a good idea

Thanks for pointing this out. I guess I should plan well in advance, because I'll only have access to the school's equipment for another year ( when I graduate). Sounds like I'll be investing in some fresnels ( 4 or so: 2 650w, 2 250W, maybe one 1K or higher?) and maybe a couple of larger softboxes to put those fresnels in when needed, but also buy some umbrellas and diffuser/reflector kits. This will make my lighting kit way more versatile than just softboxes

I love this community, already getting great advice in a day!

 

[Anthony Cote]

You may get allot out of this interview with the Director Photography Jeff Cronewealth talking about lighting decisions in The Social Network, shooting on the RED with the MX sensor and a whole lot more.
http://scottfeinberg.com/wp-content/uploads/Cronenweth.mp3
You would recognize Jeff's visual style through Fight Club, 1 hour photo etc. Kind of a genius in his own mind, look up his other works too

Thanks for the link. I haven't listend to it yet but will have time later today. I've seen Fight Club but I'll be sure to look up his work and Netflix them soon

 

[Marc Wielage]

The behind-the-scenes documentaries on the Blu-ray of Social Network will let you glimpse some of the lighting set ups used by Jeff Cronenweth. It's very interesting to note how bright the actual location looked when shot by the documentary crew, vs. the very dense look created by the DP (and the colorist) for the final film.

The interior lighting setups go all over the place, from the restaurants to the dorm rooms to the legal offices to the lecture halls, so (to me) there was no one look that covers everything. Part of the choices boil down to key-to-fill ratio, plus how much the mids were crushed during the final. They did a beautiful job all around, with some very subtle stuff that I think average viewers would miss. I particularly liked how they captured different looks for California vs. Boston vs. NY vs. England.