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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

How much did you sell your Red for?

U

Ugo Del

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I was checking the market place these last weeks, there's many Red cameras for sale but it seems none were sold. The ads are just filled with "bump" and "new price". People don't take the new cameras into account and ask for crazy prices (I saw a used scarlet dragon brain for 1800£ more than a new scarlet W this week).

I understand that people don't want to lose money but, well, that's the tech world. We are one month away from getting the scarlet-W and Raven in our hands, we will probably see the second hand market flooded out with epics and scarlets, I guess it's not a good solution to be too greedy waiting for that to happen.

Anyway, how much did you sell your camera for if you managed to sell it these last 2 months? It would be interesting to know for buyers and sellers.
Or how much did you buy your used Red for?
 
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Ugo.

I agree. It seems people are asking way to much for used cameras right now.

What is a used epic mx brain really worth for example? Once Scarlet Weapons are shipping I seriously can't see them selling for even $5k! Sure it's a great camera but for $10k you can get a NEW (with warranty) dragon sensor dsmc2 weapon brain.

Honestly, I wouldn't pay even $5k for a used epic mx anymore. Yet I see people asking more than double that.

I bet that once the new cameras are available for immediate purchase and are shipping we will see used prices on original dsmc cameras tank.
 
I agree that Epic MX and Scarlet MX/Dragon are not hot anymore with these new announcements, but the Epic Dragon situation and how some people put it against Scarlet-W seems really unfair and damaging to Epic Dragon owners who want to sell their cameras.

Epic Dragon has become a kind of a black sheep in the lineup.
 
Troy Bakewell said:
Honestly, I wouldn't pay even $5k for a used epic mx anymore. Yet I see people asking more than double that.
Click to expand...

You'll be waiting a long time then. The market hasn't fallen to that price point, not even close. It's being pressured from both sides.
 
These kinds of discussions remind me of the "Spin" room after a political debate. People insist what they WANT to be true...is true. The actual truth usually falls somewhere in-between.
 
Truth is the camera market, has never been flooded before. It only gets flooded when people don't like a particular camera. You can check craigslist, dvxuser, etc. You won't find a huge amount of cameras floating not even the original Red Ones. There are few people in the world who know the difference between a Red Scarlet and an Epic, much less an EpicX and and an Epic Dragon. The rental value will still be above $500. That's the real value that holds weight for second hand purchases. Sane people weigh renting vs purchasing.
 
If we look at the history of the RED One, even after it was out of production and the trade-in programs had ended, the body alone for a R1MX was still selling for $10K+. There are quite a few more EPIC brains out there now and the market is a bit more flooded. And yet a huge number of EPIC owners are trading their cameras in, which does prop up the value to a certain point, even though it probably de-valued the camera when the trade-in program was announced.

Shashbugu is right -- the rental market really dictates the secondary market and these cameras still rent for a certain price. A shoot-able Red One package is still $250/day plus lenses and other support... And there are still a lot of them out there being used and rented. The EPIC will be no different. The cameras are workhorses and have produced some amazing Hollywood features and tons of other content. If I were still in the rental business, I probably would not have traded in my EPIC for Weapon, but rather kept it as a rental mule. At $500/day for $1500~$1800 per week, it should generate a lot more for me over the next couple years than simply trading it in has.
 
The largest rental house in my area had MX Epics. They upgraded those to Dragon. I believe they are selling the Dragons and are replacing them with Weapons. The owner is a friend of mine, and he told me old tech doesn't rent well, so they sell it and buy new. Just part of the way their business works.
 
It's all driven by demand. In the hotter markets, lots of older cameras still get rented because the new tech is $1500+ per day where the previous model of camera may be $400/day. Epic Dragon is renting briskly around here even with Weapons being a hot commodity. Weapon is still scarce though and commanding a bit more of a premium at the moment. But we still see R1MX going out on rentals too. Now EPIC-MX... Not so much. People want Dragon. And unless you were caught doing the Dragon upgrade late in the game, it should have paid off in spades by now. I don't see too many EPIC-MX cameras around here these days. (Colorado/ Arizona/ New Mexico)
 
None here either (Boston) but I did see an MX (pretty sure) last night on the Super Bowl PreGame show.....That's Joyce Tsang of StillMotion btw and the piece they did looked great.
IMG_0160-1_zpsweuojo3a.jpg~original
 
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Like Troy mentioned, from an owner/op perspective, spending close to $10k for anything less than an Epic-Dragon won't make much sense 4 to 8 weeks from now (being that Scarlet-W offers tons more bang for you buck and some really functional improvements over DSMC1-Dragons).

From a rental perspective, I believe an Epic-MX will still rent better than even Scarlet-W merely because of the stigma surrounding the name/model (same reason [with opposite results] why Alexa classics are still going out for a decent rate, even though they're pretty low on the Alexa totem pole).
 
Yea, the used market is a crazy one for sure. Some people get lucky, others don't. A lot is contingent on who's looking when you're selling, no matter what camera make/model. It's crazy to think though at how fast technology progresses and how a lot of people forget about the amazing technology that even got us here in the first place. The MX sensor was a dream that became a reality way before anyone in our industry was even expecting anything that magnificent. Today, with Dragon and Vista (on the horizon), it's sad that a lot of cinematographers now think that what they have is outdated and not good enough. Always remember that gear doesn't make you a great cinematographer....you do. So no matter what tool you have or are dreaming of, just get out there and shoot. You may surprise yourself.
 
Well, If anyone wants to sell an Epic MX or a Scarlet Dragon for a price that acknowledges that WEAPON is out now (which very few people the forum seem to realize), I'm all ears! :)
 
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I just bought a used Epic Dragon. Didn't want to. I wanted a scarlet W for B-can but not out yet. So I wanted a scarlet dragon but people want waaaaaay too much money for a camera body that is being replaced by a newer cheaper better one in a few weeks... At least the Epic can be upgraded.
 
Mark my words.

6 months from now epic mx brains will be selling for around $5k.
 
Who cares its a Red kit market right now... a sony F55 body only cost 29K and you know a Red Epic kit cost less and is a greater camera. Your price is your price if people buy then they buy look at people that buy so called classic cars. you cant cash them in so you sell it to the next sucker for a higher price because you dont want to spend the money to fix it or the up keep. Right now you guys are what they call haters, If you had one to sell your price would be high also so dont hate because you gave yours up for free to upgrade.
 
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