How many people can actually afford this "affordable" scarlet ?

[Jonesy Jones]

Ppl who shoot web Fs100 is the way to go =)l

I was ready to pull the trigger on the fs100. I love the images I'm seeing frm this camera, but it's a horribly designed camera. I've heard too negative things about it, other than the image. I've decided to stay with dslr's and invest in glass and gear that doesn't go out of style. I think within a year or two we'll see very nice camera in the fa100 price range.

 

[Carmel Bruno]

I was ready to pull the trigger on the fs100. I love the images I'm seeing frm this camera, but it's a horribly designed camera. I've heard too negative things about it, other than the image. I've decided to stay with dslr's and invest in glass and gear that doesn't go out of style. I think within a year or two we'll see very nice camera in the fa100 price range.

In a year or two you would have more than recuperated your investment.

 

[Jonesy Jones]

In a year or two you would have more than recuperated your investment.

... And also wasted $5000. A dslr can do just about all that, and I'll invest that money in glass and gear and save for the next camera. Not right for everyone, but for me it is.

 

[George Butterfield]

Matthew, answer me this, how hard for you would it be to get an extra part time job and earn $15,000 net? Seriously, what prevents you from coming up with $15,000 in the next twelve months? How about jobs in the underground economy where your hard earned money doesn't go for other people's film grants? I'm interested, can you not earn $15,000 in the next twelve months, how do you spend your time?

 

[Christian Jadot]

I have been thinking about this long and hard. I am going to jump and purchase a Scarlet. I am on the Cusp, and I am dipping into place I do not want to take money from, and I will need to gain it back fast. The market I am in, I will not be able to make it back over 6 months. The reasons I am jumping in:

1) It is the best camera for the price on paper. (I don't doubt it is awesome in reality as well, but it is not proven.)
2) The camera will not be out dated for a long, long time. 3K is about what the human eye can see, and alot of film resolves around 3K. (Newer film is higher.)
3) The education factor. It takes 10,000 hours to get good at something. Knowing the RED workflow and using it often is a plus on a resume, and may be worth the price alone.

On the downside:
1) My car died on me a month ago. I guess I will be a regular on crappy american public transportation.
2) Some of the money I was not expecting to use was going towards ram for my 8 core Mac. (I purchased it in anticipation of the Scarlet a couple years ago.)
3) I hate Top Ramen.

I get paid on Friday. I will purchase my Scarlet that night and find an anti-social activity to do that cost no money. Like script writing.

I truly sympathize with the people who cannot afford it and have been here since the first announcement of the Scarlet 3k for 3k. It is what made me first pay attention to RED and the Scarlet. I liked the 2/3rds, 3K 120 fps. (Ok, I would have preferred a true S16 sized sensor) and I could have talked my boss into purchasing one with the high frame rate and resolution under 10K for a package. I prefer the current Scarlet X, but not the price. It is worth it, but it is hard to afford. I was lucky to have saved enough.

It is frustrating for people saying it will pay for itself. I am in a medium sized market, but it is a poor agricultural one. I am employed by a TV station and it is my primary income. (Meaning I have very limited time to give to a side/start up business.) I feel I have the talent, but my sale skills are much to be desired. I have no doubt it will pay itself off, but not for about a year and a half in this market (with living expenses considered). So please, don't be so hard on people who cannot afford it, and dissappointed that they cannot. They like RED just as much as you, and are disappointed that they cannot join the Army when at one point they assumed they could.

If it was not for the desire to learn the RED workflow, I would have bought a pair of AF100's with a Ninjas instead. (I already have a set of 4/3rds lenses) In this market it would make more sense economically. I will have to cut a deal with a Canon owner to use lense for awhile, and she can use the Scarlet for her shorts when she needs to.

And one last note of irony, the 2 low budget narratives I am planning, the Scarlet-X is over kill. The first short, I want to do in B&W (maybe I will do it in 4K now), and the second is purposely written around a prosumer camera look. (At the time of planning these, I did not know when, if ever the Scarlet was going to be released.)

 

[matthew hendriks]

Is that the fault of the user or red ? didn't they blow this hype up to the max to get people exited about it ? And now you look strange that people actually talk like this ? In my opinion red was to open with "options" they should have been more responsible and realize what effect it has on people who are waiting so long for this.

I love how no one was even shooting offspeed (digitally) until a few years ago, and now people are expecting ridiculously high framerates in cheap cameras. Aside from RED, what's even out there right now? A couple of dSLRs and plastic camcorders that go up to ~60p if you're willing to scale down to 720 lines of resolution or a Phantom that costs $50K+...

 

[matthew hendriks]

People compare the red scarlet now on the opposit way as before... Before it was like " oh red makes it possible" wow 3k for 3k that body + kit allready cost me a rib out of my body and now we must shut up again because other camera's are more expensive what was used before as an argument by red that this was not available for the target indie low budget filmmakers.

In the end I wonder why they show us messages of this lizzard / what was amazing footage shot on the 2/3 fixed lens scarlet.. and now we get this arguments..

How about $16k+ for a Canon 300C ? 8-bit 4:2:2 1080p only.

I was realistically planning for a Scarlet 2/3" ready to shoot package in the $12k plus range based on previous announced prices for modules, media, batteries, etc. Scarlet X shooting package at $14k is not that far off the mark.

Obviously any camera is "overpriced" if you can't afford it. But compared to any other camera system at any price for all around image quality, features, and performance Scarlet X and Epic X are exceptional values in their price ranges.

 

[matthew hendriks]

I allready work full time.. ?? So how would you do that yourself ?

Matthew, answer me this, how hard for you would it be to get an extra part time job and earn $15,000 net? Seriously, what prevents you from coming up with $15,000 in the next twelve months? How about jobs in the underground economy where your hard earned money doesn't go for other people's film grants? I'm interested, can you not earn $15,000 in the next twelve months, how do you spend your time?

 

[Prince Bagdasarian]

Michael, yeah man I understand the argument, I am a Scarletuser at heart. I was there man!!!! hahaha. But I have avoided these forums for a few days because I knew I would get tired of this tirade that people are pulling down. I would be happy never to hear the words 3K for 3K again. Anyone who has been paying attention to RED over the last few years knows what has been going on, at least to a point. We were warned several times of issues. Then when RED said they had changed things the forums were full of people wanting an S35 sensor or wanting 4K, but weren't willing to pay extra for it. I would have been more than happy with the aforementioned camera, it would have suited my needs, however, as disappointing as it might be to some people, this is the way it is. RED have been pretty transparent about their process, for which I commend them, with that pro comes the con, of disappointment or levity when changes happen.

I feel for RED as well for all that R&D, effort and money spent on developing the Scarlet. Its a blow to them as well. There has been many factors both internal and external that have affected the cameras. Some things RED have been responsible for not being able to overcome, some were completely out of control. Who's to know whether the Scarlet would have been released nine months ago if it wasn't for the devastatation in Japan, the bug issues. ASIC issues. There is a so many factors involved.

I understand all sides and I am in the middle of it. I can't afford the camera personally right now. But I am willing to wait a bit until I actually need it, or can just afford to buy one. Which will be a good few months.

I just want people to stop crying and get hold of a camera, and make some money. If they were buying the Scarlet then I would assume they were planning on making money with it. If they have the $6K they would have spent on the camera there are other alternatives right now, they can use to find work, earn money and save the extra, sell the camera and buy a Scarlet in six months.

AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I was expecting to pay near 8k for a fixed lens Scarlet. But after realizing that the interchangeable Scarlet could be a possible release on, I bumped up my credit cards to accommodate what I was now expecting to spend on an interchangeable Scarlet -- 15k. I use Red One and DSLR's a lot, but the Scarlet-X cannot compare as far as spec/price goes!

NOW I'M BROKE (OR SHALL I SAY MORE IN DEBT)... however, I'll still be moving forward with putting my Scarlet-X package to the best use ever in my first feature film, Moira ( www.indiegogo.com/moirafilm ) <--- yes I snuck in a plug lol

The additional accessories will cost me an arm and a leg right now so I'll be purchasing overtime, considering most are not crucial to utilizing the Scarlet-X package. Lenses? All my current Canon lenses will do (and will be renting Zeiss for the time being).

 

[George Butterfield]

Apparently Shakespeare was illiterate

Well, we know that William Shaksper of Stratford raised an illiterate daughter indicating that perhaps he was not the great author.

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

Hold yer horses.

So you're saying an EPIC is overpriced? :emote_headwall:

I'd say for my applications it's overpriced. You can't just look at a feature list and determine something's value for everyone. If you only used 1 of 100 features then paying 100x the price for one small feature might make it overpriced.

 

[Mike Garrick]

It is frustrating for people saying it will pay for itself. I am in a medium sized market, but it is a poor agricultural one. I am employed by a TV station and it is my primary income. (Meaning I have very limited time to give to a side/start up business.) I feel I have the talent, but my sale skills are much to be desired. I have no doubt it will pay itself off, but not for about a year and a half in this market (with living expenses considered). So please, don't be so hard on people who cannot afford it, and dissappointed that they cannot. They like RED just as much as you, and are disappointed that they cannot join the Army when at one point they assumed they could.

Christian as you seem to be going ahead with the purchase, congrats. You mentioned working at TV station ( I assume small to midsize) Having worked in broadcast many years a question. Is there no possibility of coming to a deal with the station in regards to camera hire on special projects? Smaller TV stations would love to use better gear but they can't afford the $$$ hard costs . Your Scarlet X could be an ideal fit. I am not talking about you letting them use your camera for everyday stuff nor would I be letting them use it for free. However for special projects, station ID's , personality promo's, news promo's . Projects which require a higher end look & for a negotiated fee, everybody including you could be a winner. I'm not sure of your situation & I know exactly what the high moral ground of TV politics is like.....but just a thought.

 

[Darius Lyles]

When Jim said the Scarlet was changing I hoped for a bigger sensor and 4K mostly because I wanted the extra resolution for stills. Technically the Scarlet is out of my price range, but I plan to fundraise my ass off until I can afford it. I look at as an investment in my future, if I didn't have a wife and a kid I would sell my car to fund the purchase of the camera and the DOC I am working on. To me it is something to work towards, I was there at the beginning when it was announced and I was around for all the announcements. So I made a decision I will have a Scarlet one way or another and I will keep working until I do.

 

[Jonathan L. Bowen]

Too expensive for me too, but even if I could afford it I wouldn't buy it. It's not a very practical camera. For the 99% of us who shoot stuff for the web, this camera is not for us. This is a b cam for people who already own an Epic. Jim keeps saying this camera is for professionals. What o think he means is that its for big movies. Because the majority of professionals have no use doe this camera. Not for folks who like to shoot and edit their own stuff because the setup to edit this stuff costs half of what the camera does.

Save your money. I believe in the next year there'll be a camera - Red or not - in the 6k to 8k range that will be great for us.

I agree and disagree. I'm ordering a Scarlet-X so clearly I'm very excited about this camera and think it will be fantastic to have. That being said, for my primary business I would not be able to justify purchasing this camera and would have no real reason to own it. We, like you said, shoot almost exclusively Web videos, promotional stuff for businesses, and occasionally a television ad (local stuff), so for us, even a 720p camera like the HVX200 is sufficient to get great quality at the low budgets that we are given. We make our money based on sheer volume, dozens of videos, like this week tomorrow we shoot our 4th video of the week (CA and FL, I don't travel for any of this, just hire locally). So the Scarlet is absolute overkill for my current client base. That being said, I expect and hope to expand into higher value productions, where having a better camera could be important. If the client pays enough, then I fly out to the shoot with my Scarlet, and they get a superior product based on my experience and skill and the added value of better footage.

For me, though, it's more about convenience, of enjoying having a camera that is capable of shooting what I want. I always got good value out of the HVX200s and it never made any sense to rent them because the rental rates were far too much money. It worked out that if you shoot just one day per month for three years, you paid for the camera, and unless you aren't a professional then it makes no sense to rent at all. Any professional is going to be filming an average of more than once per month lol. When it comes to high-end cameras, though, it always made more sense to me to rent, because you're not going to need them too often. But with the Scarlet-X, I can legitimately use that camera for my next feature film and not feel bad about it. I mean, sure other people are using Epics, but there's nothing wrong with acquiring footage in 4K with a great camera like this, especially for any indie feature, so we can rent lenses and whatnot but at least I'll have the primary gear. That's my reason for purchase, ultimately, is that I feel that it's inexpensive enough to warrant owning.

 

[Eric J Kosinski]

I have been thinking about this long and hard. I am going to jump and purchase a Scarlet. I am on the Cusp, and I am dipping into place I do not want to take money from, and I will need to gain it back fast. The market I am in, I will not be able to make it back over 6 months. The reasons I am jumping in:

1) It is the best camera for the price on paper. (I don't doubt it is awesome in reality as well, but it is not proven.)
2) The camera will not be out dated for a long, long time. 3K is about what the human eye can see, and alot of film resolves around 3K. (Newer film is higher.)
3) The education factor. It takes 10,000 hours to get good at something. Knowing the RED workflow and using it often is a plus on a resume, and may be worth the price alone.

On the downside:
1) My car died on me a month ago. I guess I will be a regular on crappy american public transportation.
2) Some of the money I was not expecting to use was going towards ram for my 8 core Mac. (I purchased it in anticipation of the Scarlet a couple years ago.)
3) I hate Top Ramen.

I get paid on Friday. I will purchase my Scarlet that night and find an anti-social activity to do that cost no money. Like script writing.

I truly sympathize with the people who cannot afford it and have been here since the first announcement of the Scarlet 3k for 3k. It is what made me first pay attention to RED and the Scarlet. I liked the 2/3rds, 3K 120 fps. (Ok, I would have preferred a true S16 sized sensor) and I could have talked my boss into purchasing one with the high frame rate and resolution under 10K for a package. I prefer the current Scarlet X, but not the price. It is worth it, but it is hard to afford. I was lucky to have saved enough.

It is frustrating for people saying it will pay for itself. I am in a medium sized market, but it is a poor agricultural one. I am employed by a TV station and it is my primary income. (Meaning I have very limited time to give to a side/start up business.) I feel I have the talent, but my sale skills are much to be desired. I have no doubt it will pay itself off, but not for about a year and a half in this market (with living expenses considered). So please, don't be so hard on people who cannot afford it, and dissappointed that they cannot. They like RED just as much as you, and are disappointed that they cannot join the Army when at one point they assumed they could.

If it was not for the desire to learn the RED workflow, I would have bought a pair of AF100's with a Ninjas instead. (I already have a set of 4/3rds lenses) In this market it would make more sense economically. I will have to cut a deal with a Canon owner to use lense for awhile, and she can use the Scarlet for her shorts when she needs to.

And one last note of irony, the 2 low budget narratives I am planning, the Scarlet-X is over kill. The first short, I want to do in B&W (maybe I will do it in 4K now), and the second is purposely written around a prosumer camera look. (At the time of planning these, I did not know when, if ever the Scarlet was going to be released.)

Dude, then why buy a Scarlet X at the moment. I'm only buying as we have a feature in the works (pre production) and I own a production company which can benefit from a new camera, however FS 100 is really attractive for the ease of use, multiple lens adapters already avaialbe, etc etc. I think so many people have been on the reduser.net forum for so many years hoping for something that now they are brainwashed.

If you need this camera now or in the near future and it will be paying itself off soon it is a wise investment, but if you don't, don't spend the money . It will be here for some time. In fact, the many of us buying now are the "guinea pigs" as I'm sure there will be some issues off the gate.

Not trying to discourage you, but I think the used market for Scarlet X's and the rental rates will be really inexpensive coming next year.

 

[Alan Rencher]

Since the announcement I waited years and years for a camera what I finally could afford. ofcourse I understand red with having a minimum quality standard but didn't they tell the world for over 3 years that this amazing camera would be a revolutionar product for the low budget indie filmmakers ?

Fixed lens or not I don't mind about this, I finally would be able to buy a camera what could reach this wanted cinema look. 3k for 3k was a dream came true or not ? This kit was the first shock.. it was more expensive then the whole first announced scarlet. It already was the question if I would be able to afford this camera on a longer term.

Now we speak about 15.000 dollar I said goodbye to my dream.. and I feel terrible I constantly followed the news around scarlet.. I was so exited.. like many others..

Now I get those people who tell me to 'shut up' because they just buy a epic or scarlet x without any problem in budget.. but see it from reds own prospective "the soccermom" will not shoot 3k and the targeted independent filmmakers like me still can only look at the 3D animations on their computerscreen

For everybody who owns or will buy a red camera, congratultations for me it turned out in a huge disapointment you are not gonna tell me that they found this out on the very first moment..

Let's be honest.. While announcing this 3k fixed lens camera.. didn't they provided us with footage to make us more want this camera ??? And now we hear the quality would not be high enough... too bad and very strange.. so what we have seen was not from the fixed lens scarlet ? What I saw looked pretty good.

I think red was afraid that the serious camera buyers would go for one of more scarlet S35 or FF35 cameras instead of the more expensive Epics. That could be a change in strategy why they discontuned the S35 and FF35. They would cut in their own fingers and in the end red stays a company what needs to make profit as well. These 2 cameras allready had an impressive resolution and specs list.. With the knowledge of big movies shot on a red one with less specs why buy this expensive epics if it could be done on a scarlet.

Maybe I am crazy or you don't share my way of thinking.. but why would you give all these people who were looking out for that special product a cold shower ? Create such a big hype over their backs to finaly just deliver the higher budget cameras anyway ? That was reds mission right ?? They were impressed by the rest results and it would not suprise them if somebody would shoot a feature film o this 3k for 3k model..

With all the improvements they canceled the whole product because the quality would not be good enough ?? explain this to me ??

I remember all these video's of Ted telling about this "great product" "we had some delay but now the specs are even better" .. I can not hear this stuff anymore..


Im not angry, just disapointed how they communicated this to their customers.


Have a good day / Evening (depends where u from I still can smile haha..




Matthew


p.s. 1 question, Isn't the Scarlet X not an alternative on the S35 ??? What about this full frame FF 35 model ?

You can always rent.