How many people can actually afford this "affordable" scarlet ?

[Gary Paul Walker]

I get the dissapointment, really I do. For many its the investment of time and energy in the reduser forum, to find a camera that they can't afford causes much frustration.

But for a little perspective....

Reds openess about the development, the highs and lows of missed released dates, changes in hardware, design, projected delivery number etc, all laid bare here on reduser.net has meant that with every twist and turn of the scarlet, we've seen it. But thats sorta what people buy into when they come here, a company that communicates with the user directly.
Before the announcment, Jim said they made a change to scarlet, what that change was, who knows, but it couldve been huge and we just didnt know.

I would wager if Canon adopted a similar approach to their potential marked, we'd see their own R&D 'hell' and probably their latest offering would have started at a more reasonable price (but, in my opinon, never offered reasonable value).

So yes, its bad that for some its now not affordable, and perhaps aggravating to hear the comments of 'a good film doesn't hang on the camera you use'. I'm not sure whats accomplished in posting long rhetoric about it, aside from venting a little frustration.

 

[matthew hendriks]

I see "save" but if you can't because there is no money to save I believe the scarlet x is a great camera but I can't afford this.. not even in years.. I guess people who say these things make much more money then the people who were interessted in this 3k camera. Now we speak about $ 15.000 (no lens included).. its simply out of reach.

I am just kidding ... Even if 90% of possible buyer of fixed scarlet are disappointed .. even then JIM shouldn't RESIGN ...

as I said I am disappointed but still scarlet-X is amazing ... but its not what was promised for years

 

[Pierre Henri Landriau]

I believe Red will tackle the FS100 price point when Canon will release their own FS100. I'm thinking Q3 2012.

 

[Zharmane Washington]

I am very disappoint but, once I look at this over all, I can go buy something I can afford. If every one is shooting the same s35. 2/3 would have gave a new look from what othe people are doing. You fellow what other people are doing you film will look the same like every one else. Red supposed to change the game not fellow the market. 2/3 3k with red code raw is a game changer. Sorry I am mad but will continue to live. I will not buy the new scarlet x I am going to start saving for a real epic

 

[Mariano T.]

I`m not disappointed, the second Mr. Jannard wrote about "too high expectations", a week or so before the announcement, I ordered my Sony Alpha 77 (to make my personal projects), I knew what that pre-announcement meant price wise....

I could buy both scarlet and epic, I have the money, but I see it this way, first I need to establish a business in order to recoup my investment, then buy the camera. I don`t need expensive gear laying around. Everybody should take it like this. I´ve seen too many people who bought red ones or epics and work their asses off to rent them out and recoup their money.

 

[Pascal Payant]

One thing. Stop crying guys. Please. The camera is out. the camera is freaking anwsome. Yes it's a little more expensive. just save your penny. my 5d mark 2 kit cost me 9k total. it's a 5d mark 2 . far away from 4k camera. the camera will be even better next year with the upgrade etc.. there's always gonna be a new cool camera. i shot over 30 films with little HD like panasonic, 5d mark 2 and won multiple festivals , press etc.. take anything and just shoot. it will not make you better. for that price range to have almost an Epic IS FREAKING HUGE. just be glad that we live in time like theses. where you can create almost Imax images. that's insane. I was shooting with my DVX100b and 35mm adapter and I was sooo excited. imagine now with this camera that is not that expensive. people who are crying about it it's because they are not serious about their art. people who do this for a living we are singing in the rain. this is not a camera to go play with friends and record your little kid birthday. this is a professional cinema camera. Yes they've changed prices, specs etc.. but who cares. they comes out with something that almost everyone dream of. that'S the point. so stop. Enjoy the time that we live in with amazing technology and just go shoot with what you have. If you can afford it then go and buy it. otherwise. there'S a lot of great option that will achieve amazing results. I'm still having a blast with my 5d mark 2 but Scarlet is my next move for sure. Again, This is a professional Cinema camera, not for soccer dad

 

[Max Gibson]

I agree that RED should not have used the very public forum of NAB 2008 to announce a 3K camera for under $3K but there's still time...

http://www.engadget.com/2008/04/14/red-unveils-scarlet-mini-camcorder/

I believe they will do the right thing and make good on that for all those in that target price range who have helped spread the word about RED because of that announcement and helped them build the worldwide brand they have today. An announcement like that alone has tremendous brand-building and Internet publicity power and they have benefitted tremendously from it.

4K for under $10K is more than any of us EVER expected. Give them some more time on the other. They haven't forgotten.

Michael Zaletel

Thanks Michael , this is the only gentlemanly reply i have seen around here that comes from the " yey " sayers of the scarlet.
i am with you ( and some others ) for possibility of a more affordable Scarlet with lower specs from RED. Although i am going to watch for it from far with reasonable doubts. oh- i need to add at this point i have enough money to purchase even two scarlets at this point but i am not going to buy even one. For the project at hand we need THREE cameras and saved up for them based on Ted's ~$6K plus a margin. The night of announcement we stayed up and shot test clips with Sony FS100 and sent for client approval. ( we bought our FS100s months ago ). i just received the approval with a GOLDEN sentence in there : " Lets get the show on the road now this ( low light shots out of FS100 ) exceeds our expectations ".

Perhaps the supply chain continues to be the problem. Perhaps RED had to get off their hands and put something semi working, pushed by highly advertised Canon that turn to be a crap joke. All and all the bottom-line runs them all. Even a school kid can see the sales figure problem here. For the extra margin of price per unit RED is gambling of being compensated by just enough sales of ScarletX. Not in this economy ! Just a year ago guys at Zaccuto showed everyone the picture comes out of 5D is good enough even for BIG screen and we all agreed. That's even if we are targeting BIG screen. Take a gander at the stats for indi productions. Reality sucks. Many, many indi films end up for web consumption, getting paid by per click ads. The hype will die soon and the crowd will go after making the rent money while RED tallies the reality of earnings. Perhaps then there will be a cleaner space around here to discuss this matter. i'm sure even RED can't stand the havoc some fanboys reek around here ( i hope ! )

 

[Zharmane Washington]

aaa

 

[Zharmane Washington]

Also what do Ted have to say?

 

[DCC Erickson]

You can't afford the camera? How can you afford to shoot anything in the first place? It costs a lot to shoot even a micro budget feature, and if you just want to enter short film and Dorito's commercial contests, you don't need this. What else do you feel entitled to from life that you're not getting? Boo hoo.

 

[Eki Halkka]

The market is not demanding 2/3" cameras these days - everyone wants shallow DoF.
Fixed lens cameras are not "future proof"

There are multiple threads here that prove the opposite is true.

I'm in that demographic - i would have bought a fixed lens 2/3" camera, because i have lot of use for such a beast (i.e. greenscreen work and documentaries, both of which benefit from reasonably deep DoF with reasonable amount of light. I also often shoot alone, which means fixed lens is ideal for me).

Current Scarlet is a great camera, but not one that makes sense for me to buy. I'll rent on a per case basis instead, just like i've done with Red One.

 

[Jarek Zabczynski]

Not gonna waste time reading through all this, but Scarlet is relatively cheap for what it does. If you can't recoup the cost of one over the course of 6 months then you're doing something wrong...and I'm being very generous with that figure. I'd say the same for an Epic or any other piece of high end gear like this. It's all about risk and reward. The more you spend, the more it should allow you to make.

 

[Joe Hitchcock]

Not having a word processor didn't stop Shakespeare.

Hahaha.

I wanted a RED ONE but couldn't afford it, so I bought a 7D, then a 5D - and have been waiting for something like this.

The more you pay, the more you get - but there are plenty of cheaper HD cameras for indie filmmakers.

 

[Max Gibson]

You can't afford the camera? How can you afford to shoot anything in the first place? It costs a lot to shoot even a micro budget feature, and if you just want to enter short film and Dorito's commercial contests, you don't need this. What else do you feel entitled to from life that you're not getting? Boo hoo.

That's a whole point. Many people complaining here about the new price point of Scarlet could in fact buy it at the late approximated price that was unofficially announced by Ted and others ( with those unpopular specs of pre Nov 3rd ).
You are making a very valid point ( heavy-handed though ) about the affordability of camera. There are many links in a production any system. If one cannot afford the pro camera of any caliber that person will have problems with lenses, tripod(s), lights, transportation, insurance, caretakers ladies, and for sure editing rooms. and after all than done the distribution fees will kill you and your gang with one hand.

Scarlet never was for everybody even at dream 3k for $3K ( considering the rest of the crap needed to make it workable ). Move on people, life goes on and it's beautiful. we saved up for 3 Scarlets @ $8k and it will remain in the bank ( tin can in the top cupboard ). We will shoot in the past on HD. Ya i know i know it's not future proof. But i keep nearly $25000. in the tin can for another while with options wide open. In fact RED needs to cry for it, if they want my money.

 

[David Rasberry]

The last round of budget planning I did for Scarlet 2/3" came out to around $10k without the brain, just necessary Red stuff to make it work for typical shooting days. At $14k for the entry level EOS package Scarlet X is still in that same overall budget territory minus a couple of batteries and another SSD.
I can use my existing lenses with cheap EOS mount adapters until I can afford to upgrade mounts and lenses.
It is a serious chunk of change for most of us, but if you can afford to outfit an FS100 package starting with a $5k body, Scarlet X doesn't really cost all that much more. And Scarlet fixed would not have been much if any less realistically.
Scarlet X is both more camera and less camera than Scarlet 2/3" would have been. For sure it will be more useful for high quality stills work and will serve just fine for about any level of motion work too. I will miss 120fps at 3k, hell even 2k would have been fine. But that is about it. In every other way Scarlet X is a better and more all around useful camera.
Work, sacrifice, and save. That is how most of us have to fund these kinds of things.
I just hope I see enough engineering work for next year get signed up over the next couple of months that I can take the risk. The economy has been good to me over the last couple of years, but it is iffy right now.

 

[Zeb B]

. . . me

 

[Zharmane Washington]

aaa

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

There is a certain level of contradiction though in some people's disappointment. A camera was announced in 2008 for a 2009 release. It cost $3k (+ $1500 at least in accessories). People complain A) how long it took B) how much it costs.

If you started saving in 2008 and saved up $3k for 2009... why did you stop? I started saving for a FF35 scarlet and had $0 put away but started saving with the intent of buying a FF35 Scarlet in 2009. 2009 came and went and I just kept saving at the same pace now I have enough for an Epic. The camera is 3 years late. If you had the means to save up to $3k in 2008 just keep going and in 2011 3 years later you should have enough for a Scarlet-X.

I understand the answer a lot of people have "because I don't want to spend $10k on a camera." That's fine. I get it, I don't want to spend $50k on an Epic. But that's a different argument than "I can't afford it." That's "I don't want to spend the money on it." It's also saying "Scarlet-X isn't good enough for the price." I don't think Epic is good enough for the price, it is for some people but not my needs. I think the vast majority of people who "can't afford Scarlet-x" are really saying they don't want to afford it or that it's not worth it. Which again is fine, but not the argument I'm hearing and a quite different argument.

 

[Max Gibson]

... RED is not a tool - it is an extension of your Soul ..

LoL . Be careful Josh, people are grabbing chunks of your Soul for $14K a pop !

 

[Erik Franzén]

One thing though - RED never "promised" any SCARLETUSER anything. They showed there hands, said: "Guys, look, this is where we're at." and went on to make said camera. After many ups and downs they looked at their creation and discovered a truth. What they had made did no longer please the crowd they were going for, no longer made monetary sense and was no longer viable as a professional gateway the Scarlet was meant to be. The competition had try to "pony up" and had done fairly well in terms of sensor performance while making an admirable, but poor, codec to support it.

The result was that the stars aligned and SCARLET-X was born from the ashes. No surprise there... things change.