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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

How Govt. Ruined The Movies

Tom said:
Hollywood productions are fleeing for Canada and Australia.
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Uhhhh... that's been going on for at least 15 years. It has little to do with the current situation.
 
Tom said:
Al Qaeda is the result of our foreign interventionism, and our warmongering is quickly bankrupting our nation.
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If we're going to talk history, at least let's leave the revisionism out of it. Al Qaeda is a terrorist organization that was formed and basically survives on the beliefs that Israel must be destroyed, any settlement with other parties that leaves Israel in existence is unacceptable, and anyone who is not a Muslim must die. While I would agree that the US policies of the last 8 years have certainly contributed to its ability to attract new true believers, its existence and purpose long predates any of the US's misadventures in the Middle East that Al Qaeda and others of its ilk claim as their own.
 
mmost said:
If we're going to talk history, at least let's leave the revisionism out of it. Al Qaeda is a terrorist organization that was formed and basically survives on the beliefs that Israel must be destroyed, any settlement with other parties that leaves Israel in existence is unacceptable, and anyone who is not a Muslim must die. While I would agree that the US policies of the last 8 years have certainly contributed to its ability to attract new true believers, its existence and purpose long predates any of the US's misadventures in the Middle East that Al Qaeda and others of its ilk claim as their own.
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Israel is an after-thought for bin Laden. Only recently has he included much talk of Israel in his speeches. It's mainly done to help recruitment. Bin Laden's main concern and objection to the US is foreign troops on Muslim lands, particularly the Arabian peninsula. He also despises our support for corrupt and despotic Arab governments, such as the Saudi monarchy. If you're genuinely interested in this subject, I can point you to some excellent books if you pm me. Start with "Imperial Hubris."
 
mmost said:
If we're going to talk history, at least let's leave the revisionism out of it. Al Qaeda is a terrorist organization that was formed and basically survives on the beliefs that Israel must be destroyed, any settlement with other parties that leaves Israel in existence is unacceptable, and anyone who is not a Muslim must die.
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I'm not sure this is quite accurate. Osama bin Laden was interviewed several times in the late 90s, and he was explicit about his grievances, and his policy aims. His first priority was to draw the U.S. into a protracted war of occupation in a Muslim country. We've seen how that went.

His stated grievances were also straightforward, and didn't include converting the heathen to Islam, or killing billions of non-Muslims. He objected to U.S. foreign policy in in the Middle-East generally, propping up what he considered heretical regimes, and in Saudi Arabia in particular, where U.S. troops were stationed. A former CIA analyst, Michael Scherer (sp?), who covered the area, has said much the same thing: Al Qaeda has genuine geo-political grievances and is motivated by those grievances, whatever we may think of them.
 
jpp said:
His stated grievances were also straightforward, and didn't include converting the heathen to Islam, or killing billions of non-Muslims. He objected to U.S. foreign policy in in the Middle-East generally, propping up what he considered heretical regimes, and in Saudi Arabia in particular, where U.S. troops were stationed. A former CIA analyst, Michael Scherer (sp?), who covered the area, has said much the same thing: Al Qaeda has genuine geo-political grievances and is motivated by those grievances, whatever we may think of them.
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I stand somewhat corrected.

However, I also think this topic is becoming a very pointless waste of bandwidth for RedUser, so I'm bowing out of it.
 
Well in this small community you guys are doing a great job of keeping it civil:thumbsup:
Please continue in this tone and the local government (us mods) won't have to restrict anyones free speech. If anyone's curious Reduser is a benign dictatorship:hippie:
 
ya i gotta say its really nice that even though we may have differing views everyone remained civil even in the heat of the debate. I applaud that.
 
Well we're only at 11 pages.

The last one (pre-election) took about 30 to get closed. :D

I would love for there to be a forum on the internet. Where very single point had to be cited with a research study backing up the statement. It would move at a snail's pace but be thoroughly educational.

What we need is an epidemiological statician to take up economics.
 
I don't mean to sound like a punk or anything
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Please don't apologize for speaking the truth.

It is so heartening to see Austrian Econ being discussed here. Thank you! Restores my faith a wee bit.

I assume you're a Ron Paul supporter as well? If you don't want to answer that one, I understand. They're calling us "terrorists" now.

And with "Mr. Change" Obama continuing Bush's policies, we'd better all watch what we say, I guess.
 
robofx said:
I assume you're a Ron Paul supporter as well? If you don't want to answer that one, I understand. They're calling us "terrorists" now.
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Bullshit. Who is calling you terrorists now?

All I see on the news still is that Democrats are the traitorous insidious communists trying to destroy the country and cede sovereignty to the terrorists. I don't hear Fox news every day accusing libertarians of treason.
 
Gavin Greenwalt said:
...Democrats are the traitorous insidious communists trying to destroy the country and cede sovereignty to the terrorists...
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Off-topic:

Gavin, I can't help but imagine that the little brown owl in your avatar is saying these things to the doe-eyed white owl. lol :rofl:
________
Teen Fat
 
"We have the highest sales, income and gas taxes in America, and now, thanks to the government, California is bankrupt. "

I suppose you forgot all about ENRON CORPORATION and PG&E stealing $72 Billion from California way back when?

$72Bn here, $72Bn there. Pretty soon you're talking about real money.

Now, I agree that "the government" is (and was) a partner in the crime. By failing to arrest the energy company fraudsters and by failing to seize their assets for manipulating the energy markets, they allowed this to happen.

Schwarzenneger talked a bunch of shit to get elected, then he had all the proceedings against the energy giants dropped as soon as he seized power, in typical corrupt Republican style. He was on the payroll the whole time.

Point is: it's not some amorphous "government" that was behind it, but specific people who should be held accountable. Government regulation was too lax, due to the immense corruption that goes unchallenged. This was a corruption of the state legislature so that they would undo 70 years of sensible regulation in favor of a "free market" for the energy sector. Some had a free for all, that's for sure.

The bogus "anti-government" libertarian rhetoric has gaping holes in it, where the rubber meets the road. I asked a libertarian candidate once about why we shouldn't have clean water regulations and have government watchdogs stop companies from polluting -- POISONING -- our drinking water.

He choked. He had no reasonable response. The room dismissed him.
 
Well we're only at 11 pages.
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You can setup your account to show 40 posts / page.
 
Tom said:
Is this kind of tone necessary, Gavin?

To answer your question:

http://www.columbiatribune.com/news/2009/mar/14/fusion-center-data-draws-fire-over-assertions/
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Sorry.

Poppycock! better?

And if I were to create a profile to help police officers identify gang members I would list tattoos, long baggy clothing, bandannas, dew rags, etc etc etc... which would identify most inner city kids regardless if they're gang members.

Let's make a little ven diagram of crazy.

(Ron Paul Supporters, etc, etc (Want to Overthrow Government))

It's the same in the environmental movement

(Drives Electric Car, Has dread locks, reads mother jones, lots of bumper stickers, is against free trade(burns down ski resorts))

If you've got a Bushmaster, AK47 and room full of shotguns. If you are a member of a militia. If you are a follower of conspiracy theories and think the only thing protecting you from a dictatorship is your ammunition. If you think the IRS is unconstitutional. You're 100x more likely to be a domestic terrorist. There's no reason to go looking for ultra right wing terrorists in a carbon neutral organic food store. Nor to look for enviroterrorists on the mexican border holding an AK-47. If you're a cop and you pull over a car with a "Meat is Murder" bumper sticker, the driver probably isn't packing heat.

As long as it's for the purpose that it's stated for and not actually attached to a domestic spying program then by all means create a description for various groups. There's this great book I forget its name but it's like the Urban Hipster guide. It lets you spot goths, goth-punks, preppies etc etc... there are like 100 categories in it. It's not perfect but it's pretty funny and accurate.

And it's still a far cry from actually suggesting that their points of view are treasonous. In said article the author even says something to the effect of "I'm not saying whether militias are good or bad, just identifying them as a common identifier."

Meanwhile you have people like Glen Beck accusing democrats of being "in bed with islamo fascists". That's straight up an accusation of treason against 35% of Americans who identify themselves as democrats.
 
Gavin Greenwalt said:
It's the same in the environmental movement
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Right. Exactly. So this Missouri report saying that people with Bob Barr bumper sitckers should be profiled as potential militia terrorists would be similar to profiling soccer moms in Volvos that have World Wildlife Fund stickers as potential Eco-Terrorists. It's just nonsense. Not only that, but who knows what type of domestic spying has even been taking place. Should Bob Barr supporters and WWF Volvo moms be subjected to wiretapping or police profiling?

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One of the shocking things in the Missouri report is that cops were told to be on the lookout for people "who believe in the Constitution"! Can you imagine that?!! What a bunch of subversives!
 
mail4joeg said:
The bogus "anti-government" libertarian rhetoric has gaping holes in it, where the rubber meets the road. I asked a libertarian candidate once about why we shouldn't have clean water regulations and have government watchdogs stop companies from polluting -- POISONING -- our drinking water.

He choked. He had no reasonable response. The room dismissed him.
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Ever hear of Underwriters Laboratories (AKA the "UL" marking on virtually every home appliance made)? The UL is privately owned and operated, and has been keeping your behind safe since 1894. So with that said, why one do you assume this can't be done with drinking water? Seriously?

Lets look at this logically: I own an operation that sells access to water.

One day someone kicks the bucket from drinking it, and people panic, no longer buying my service giving access to water. Where do they go? Some would hit up the bottled water companies, others might just go with juices, etc... In the end, people stop using the service, and I loose my business, which means I could be shut down. Whats the answer? Keeping the water clean, to keep my customers happy.

See? How simple is that? All you have to do is think logically.

As for govt. regulation... Would you trust your health to DC's lead contaminated water? Water contamination is a big issue in DC. It's publicly controlled too. Have you heard any stories about private bottled water being contaminated? I haven't...

I'll take my private clean water over your dirty public water any day.

Here are some resources:

http://www.legalradar.com/2009/02/dc-utility-faces-200-million-lead-contamination-suit.html

http://www.ul.com/global/eng/pages/

http://mises.org/story/3440
 
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