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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

How do I make big-time roiling flames?

Stephen Pruitt

Stephen Pruitt

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Hi all. . .

I'm needing a five second shot of those cool roiling flames you see from time to time (think, "Terminator 2" and other films). Is there some way to do this with gasoline or something? We're not trying to burn anything up. . . just get a "hell-fires" so of look to overlay on a few other shots.

Thanks much.

Stephen
 
This will save you from burning anything down. Worth every penny!! High Definition Pre-Keyed Action Stock Footage[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif].

[/FONT]https://www.videocopilot.net/products/action2/
 
Stephen Pruitt said:
I'm needing a five second shot of those cool roiling flames you see from time to time (think, "Terminator 2" and other films). Is there some way to do this with gasoline or something? We're not trying to burn anything up. . . just get a "hell-fires" so of look to overlay on a few other shots.
Click to expand...
I would hire a very qualified physical effects expert with lots of experience and a great resume. And get insurance, get permits, and have a fire marshall there on-set.

Special Effects Unlimited is a company that has a great rep:

http://www.specialefxunltd.com/
323-466-3361

The LA411 directory has dozens of other companies listed.

I think trying to do a fireball explosion yourself on set is fraught with risk and problems. Even with experts, things can go terribly wrong, as witnessed by the Twilight Zone​ disaster back in 1982.
 
Marc Wielage said:
I would hire a very qualified physical effects expert with lots of experience and a great resume. And get insurance, get permits, and have a fire marshall there on-set.

Special Effects Unlimited is a company that has a great rep:

http://www.specialefxunltd.com/
323-466-3361

The LA411 directory has dozens of other companies listed.

I think trying to do a fireball explosion yourself on set is fraught with risk and problems. Even with experts, things can go terribly wrong, as witnessed by the Twilight Zone​ disaster back in 1982.
Click to expand...

I just googled the 1982 Twilight Zone disaster. Thanks for giving me a permanent fear of action movie sets.
 
I would think about the modern solution .....software..there is pretty advanced software out there now capable of creating organic , realistic flame.... I seem to remember T2 flame effects where software as well .......... apart from the Nuke firestorm playground scenes.
 
One thing they can rarely get right in CG is fire (actually, fire, water, and smoke are all real tough). I have seen sets where they had spot flames done with pipes of propane, plus a few actual props on fire, and then had about 40% more flames added with CG. At least that way, there's a combination of real smoke, CG smoke, real flames, and CG flames, plus the actor has something to work with in terms of an emotional level, and the cinematographer has actual fire to cast realistic shadows and flares.
 
I've done a short with a lot of flames. Water (for safety) and gasoline is what you need (remember to keep the can of gasoline far away from the flames). I really don't see much danger, as long as the can of gasoline and the flames keep a disciplined distance, and have plenty of water. Make a check list?
 
Stephen - your description of the effect you want is a little vague. Post a couple of frame grabs of the effect from the films. Think that's acceptable from a fair use/discussion/education perspective.
 
John Galeano said:
This will save you from burning anything down. Worth every penny!! High Definition Pre-Keyed Action Stock Footage[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif].

[/FONT]https://www.videocopilot.net/products/action2/
Click to expand...



I have used their stuff before. I think that's the best and safest option!
 
Thanks for the suggestions.

The one thing I do know is that water doesn't put out a gasoline fire. . . in fact, it makes it much worse. Water only works on alcohol fires.

Now, it looks like I know what I'm going to be doing: Fire breathing!

I did a few test runs the other day without a camera, and whereas my technique can certainly use a bit of polishing, I was amazed at the sort of flames I was able to get on just a quick trial.

When I get the shot, I'll post it up.

Thanks much!

Stephen
 
Gasoline floats on the surface of water, hence flooding things with water will only make the flaming gasoline spread to other areas. What I suspect happened in your case, lucky for you actually, is that you hit the gas with so much water that you dropped the temperature of the flaming gasoline below its ignition temperature, just as what happens when you blow out a candle on a birthday cake.

Stephen
 
If you think that's why you can blow out a candle, you really shouldn't be playing with fire ;-)

Nick
 
don't use actual fire.. you'r the DoP, not the pyrotechnician

don't use actual fire.. you'r the DoP, not the pyrotechnician

Don't do it..
As one of the people on this forum with movie pyro experience, I assure you that there are good reasons for you to have someone besides the camera dept create flames.
I think you should keep looking for stock images... surely someone here has shot fire with a RED... and green screen your non-fire elements.. possibly using flicker lighting on that element..(yeah, I know.. it may make your greenscreen tricky)

Aside from union v non-union practices.. most states want a licensed experienced person with safety gear and a safety plan, and standby Fire/EMS unit to give you a filming permit for what you describe..

If you, other people, or equipment are killed or hurt, you will be held responsible...

Now, if you want to talk to the training program of your local FD, perhaps they are staging and supervising a burn that you might be allowed to film.... which in some areas will be the cheapest way to safely get stock footage of intense flames..
 
I agree that it's insane to work with fire without proper insurance and crew. I worked at ILM and DD as a CG artist but I watched several dozen pyro shoots. Those guys know what they're doing and they are scared.
If you don't know what you're doing and are not scared you should be.
You should be able to buy the footage you need stock for way less than shooting it yourself.
Don't do it.
Sam
 
Sam Edwards said:
I agree that it's insane to work with fire without proper insurance and crew. I worked at ILM and DD as a CG artist but I watched several dozen pyro shoots. Those guys know what they're doing and they are scared.
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Yes -- the level of concern and caution on a set with fire goes up about 1000%, even on pretty simple shoots. The risk for things going wrong is pretty intense. Even if no one is hurt, the chance of losing the set and damaging the props is bad enough.

I worked on Billy Friedkin's 2006 film Bug, and the climax of the movie involved the two main characters deliberately setting their motel room on fire and allowing themselves to be incinerated. They built a practical set for the motel in New Orleans, hired professionals, had fire trucks on hand and everything. Unfortunately, the fire wound up burning much faster and much bigger than anybody expected, but they had enough cameras on hand that they caught everything and nobody got hurt. The DP did enough tests that there were no problems with overexposure on the cameras (and this was film), but it took longer to put the fire out than anticipated. The final movie looked great, which was a testament to the crew at keepng cool (literally) under a stressful situation.
 
Sorry to disappoint you Nick, but that's EXACTLY why you can blow out a birthday candle.

Dis Ph.D. dun got 'im a gud educazion, includin' fiziks.

Stephen
 
Just use a fire bar, it is a perforated bar that attaches to a propane tank, used for over 80 years on all action flicks. You can mix in colors if you want designer fire, Jet sets in SF or any Demo/Gun house in LA can give you the scoop. Don't invent your own treacherous nightmare, just use the proven pro tools and you will love the results and get killer fire that is alive and photogenic. Grab a long zoom and crank up the FPS and enjoy.
 
GREAT idea, Bob. . .

I love it!

Stephen
 
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