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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

How did Claudio Miranda's test go?

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Hey Sanjin,

While we wait for Claudio to post his results, which I think would be best for him as an impartial oberver to post on his website and just link us to it, let me ask you and the rest something else.

I see in your kit you have an Angeniux 25-250 and a Cooke 10-100 zooms. How do you like those? I know David and many others prefer to work with primes, but one of the very positive things I've gotten from working with the DV and HDV cameras through the years is the ability to use a zoom as a "variable prime" and be able to keep a high level of improvisation and flexibility on set just by quickly exploring different options right then and there in the spur of the moment, before the muse flies away while we change from one prime to the next. I'm almost convinced that I'll go mostly with zooms for most of my RED projects, because I really like the ability to explore many options for framing at the twist of a ring...

I was watching The Bourne Ultimatum DVD last night and saw how they mostly used zooms, including the 25 lbs monster 12 x Angenieux for even the most frantically paced scenes. Besides the obvious style of that film and Paul Greegrass' background in documentaries, I see where using zooms is a great way to keep things rolling... Comments?
 
People who are used to zooms have a hard time getting used to primes, and vice-versa to some extent. There are legitimate reasons for using zooms, of course.

I do find, though, that you really learn the subtle effects of focal lengths by choosing primes throughout a feature shoot, so that you can guess whether you want to use a 50mm instead of a 75mm, for example. It leads to a sort of precision in framing and composition (that mathematical precision you sense when watching an Ozu movie, all shot on a 50mm, or something Gordon Willis shot like "The Godfather") whereas a zoom leads to a sort of looseness and vagueness about the choice of focal length. It's just a different style of working and creates a different look to the movie ultimately. Sure, it wouldn't make much sense to use only primes if you are after a "Bourne Supremacy" sort of feeling, let alone it wouldn't make much sense practically.

But don't knock shooting on primes until you've tried it. It's great to really get to know a single lens and all of its personality and how it affects the scene.
 
Hey Rudi,

I have an old Cooke 25-250mm Cine Varotal PL mount, Arriflex/Zeiss 10-100mm with PL adapter (S16 mm), Arriflex/Zeiss 85mm T 2 with PL adapter.

The lenses are old and not in a perfect condition like a new one but in quite fine to play, do testing and to work carefully.

As David wrote it's up to the cinematographer's and director's aesthetic concept and to your experience and knowledge about each single lens you have, you were working with, etc.

Start to think about your experience with using still photo lenses.

I do have about 20-25 still photo lenses and exactly know the good and bad sides of each lens.

Also everyday learning and making notes.

Advantage to have RED and couple of PL lenses (old zoom and primes) privately owned (still waiting for my RED#694) is that you could daily test and learn about working with optics for moving pictures.

Zooms vs. primes is one of the famous photographer's/cinematographer's topic that have endless discussions.
 
Sanjin, David,

I agree that zooms vs.primes are one of those endless topics in photography. I like both very much. I guess when I first started taking photos I had only money left for a couple of zooms and went with them, and from there on amassed my experience with zooms mostly. But I learned to use them more like primes really, learned the feel and behavior of each of them in set scales, in "ranges" or "increments". Like I look at a scene and think: this will look well in the "low 20's" (anything from 21 mm to 25 mm), "high 30's", 50's, 70's, etc, etc. If I want a look in the low 20's, then I can compose from right then and there, whereas if I have a 24mm prime on the camera, I may have to move around until the image in the viewfinder is exactly what I want. But of course, I only use primes for wide angle, macro and portrait, so for me the primes are more the specialized tools instead of the zooms...

And getting back to this thread, I read that Claudio tested one the "old" cameras, the ones that exhibit some significant problems that seem to be now eliminated. That's a shame...But, let's hope to have his results soon. As somebody who's shot so much with the Viper and newer Sony, I can't wait to hear from him.
 
And what about a zoom like COOKE's S4/i 15-40 T2, it makes choosing between this and the equivalent S4 T2 primes (16-18-21-25-27-32-35-40) a lot harder I think.
I would like to know what you guys would pick up to rent if budget was not a problem, this zoom or the primes.
Actually I plan to by the COOKE Red Set, that's why i am asking.

Thanks

Emmanuel
 
Rudi Herbert said:
And getting back to this thread, I read that Claudio tested one the "old" cameras, the ones that exhibit some significant problems that seem to be now eliminated. That's a shame...But, let's hope to have his results soon. As somebody who's shot so much with the Viper and newer Sony, I can't wait to hear from him.
Click to expand...

I spoke with Claudio several times this week. When he re-did the test, he had a brand new camera directly from RED.
 
Jendra said:
I spoke with Claudio several times this week. When he re-did the test, he had a brand new camera directly from RED.
Click to expand...

I think it was an old camera though. Even the leader of the rebellion said so:

Jannard said:
Claudio just tested an old camera.
Click to expand...

The new cameras are not released yet. They're still working on them.
 
Jendra said:
I spoke with Claudio several times this week. When he re-did the test, he had a brand new camera directly from RED.
Click to expand...

Claudio did not have a "new" camera as defined as the ones that we will ship later this month. It did not have the new sensor settings, the new DSP, the new cold fix, and it had one of the early prototypes of the new mount (I think). We have offered Claudio to test the "new" camera as soon as they are finished. But he did test an "old" camera.

Jim
 
Jannard said:
Claudio did not have a "new" camera as defined as the ones that we will ship later this month. It did not have the new sensor settings, the new DSP, the new cold fix, and it had one of the early prototypes of the new mount (I think). We have offered Claudio to test the "new" camera as soon as they are finished. But he did test an "old" camera.

Jim
Click to expand...

Hi Jim,

Will there be much difference as I assume the camera Claudio got was 'up to date' at the time of the test.

I guess a Red One V Red OneX test is in order!

Stephen
 
Thanks Claudio.

Very good test report and pictures.

The PROs are exactly what is a reason that me and a couple of thousand of us choosed RED.

CONs can be reduced as soon as possible.

It is about development and a flux.

And Jim said that you had an "old" camera anyway!

Looking forward to read with the same pleasure your next RED test too.
 
Thanks for sharing, Claudio. Very interesting results... I thought RED had the rolling shutter issues fixed...
 
Amazing to see the difference between the two cameras when it comes to flares. The Red's handling of them is down-right ugly... I know that Red's logo is a red dot... but this is ridiculous. I am glad this was fixed (it was, right?)

RED:
A004_C005_071206_0256.jpg


F23:
reel_001_Angeles_Crest_take_005_camA_0088567.jpg
 
"16 gig cards are now available and the hard drives are ready"

:shifty:
 
CLAUDIO:"4K does not appear to be 4K. Sometimes appearing softer than the 2K F23."
CLAUDIO: Red has "Less dynamic range" then F23.


Uhm... Maybe I should stick with Kodak Vision 3 until Red has a chance to catch up.
 
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