How dependable?

[Jim Michael]

Since you most often hear about the failures and less often about the successes, I'd like a little input on dependability aspects of Scarlet. In the past there have been stories of folks waiting around on set while issues with a Red camera get resolved such as overheating and crashes. There are statements like "It's in beta", certain firmware revisions have issues, etc. Enough to give someone who takes risk mitigation seriously to be at unease. So, given a scenario where a reshoot may be impossible and you get one take, would you trust it to a Scarlet? Is it a stable platform? This involves a scenario where the takes may be on the order of 20 minutes or longer. Power would always be available so batteries shouldn't be an issue. The obvious risk mitigation step of course is a second camera rolling. If there is a whitepaper on related testing that Red has done I would appreciate a link to it. TIA.

 

[D Fuller]

Well, I haven't worked with Scarlet, but I have worked with Red One for a few years in both 0-degree (F) cold and 90-degree heat. I have ever waited around on set for camera-related issues. It just has not happened. And I've never used an ice pack on the camera, or a heater. It's just worked.

I've worked with Epic now for about 7 months, and have had no problems on set. I do a lot of documentary interviews, sometimes 40-minute takes, and heve never had an issue that resulted in la lost take except when the DP let the SSD fill up. I count that as human error.

Search on here for Dino's threads about shooting with Errol Morris, and you'll see that they routinely shoot full-mag takes without problems.

The one thing I would say is that you need to know the camera. Test fan settings for the kind of work you do and be sure you know what will provide enough air for the situation you are working in. Then just shoot. The cameras are solid.

 

[Eric J Kosinski]

I had the opportunity to work with an Epic this weekend, on set and for sizing up for some new accessories we are developing. Watched it work on set from the sidelines, but got my hands on it a little. Completely reliable from what i could see and the crew had no hesitation working with only one on set. They are well into production of a feature and have had no issues. They seem to be running it hard and consistent on all types of situations.

 

[Noah Yuan-Vogel]

Unfortunately this is a difficult thing to say with certainty at this point. The last time I used an Epic, it froze twice using the release firmware at the time, unable to boot without reflashing firmware so I needed to copy firmware to an SSD and the camera had to be reflashed with a previous firmware in the field. That said, I discovered that issue very quickly and was able to be ready for it if and when it happened again, and it is most likely fixed in the new firmware unless it was a hardware failure, though new firmwares may also introduce new issues. At the same time I hear plenty of reports of happy epic users etc.

R1 has been quite stable but even after years of software revisions, I've almost never gone through a shoot without it freezing on boot and needing a reboot, which can waste a few minutes on set if you're waiting for the camera to startup and it never does and then it takes 90sec to reboot again.

I think anyone expecting rock solid stability could be very disappointed, but anyone with a fair amount of technical knowledge and ability to cope with any issues in the field shouldnt have too much to worry about. Basically you should have the ability to reflash the camera in the field if you really want to be sure you never have a problem. Stability is also to some extent the choice of the user. Many owners choose to run beta firmwares or try new firmwares so they have access to new featurse, but if you are an owner who needs stability it is probably best to always try to use the latest release firmware and if you have issues, try other firmwares and figure out which one is most stable for you. There will always be a tradeoff between known stability with current or aging firmwares versus having the latest features by using a new, untested firmware.

Fortunately Scarlet has the potential to be more available to a wider range of users, which means more testers in the field and better community support. The more users, the greater the likelihood that any issue you encounter has happened before, and this makes stability of new firmwares more evident more quickly.

 

[Timothy Eaton]

Hi Jim,

Is it the first guy setting foot on Mars? Then you have multiple cameras running regardless of camera model. All cameras, of whatever make, are subject to technical difficulties. We used film for a hundred years, and it runs through a Rube Goldberg like process on both the acquisition and development sides. Then tape - the dreaded dew sensor could shut you down.

Personal experience with Red One for several years and now Epic for several months? As bombproof as it gets. Never a single issue that resulted in a lost take. Epic is the best camera I have ever owned, hands down.

Tim Eaton

 

[Jim Michael]

Thank you for your thoughtful replies. That helped a lot. Looks like with proper testing following firmware upgrades we should be in pretty good shape.

 

[Phil Holland]

I've been using the Scarlet X for nearly one month now and have used it in very hot and dry through extremely cold and damp situations. No issues to report on the camera functionality at all.

I recommend protecting the camera from water, mist, sand, dust, etc... Standard operation stuff for any camera. Don't shoot lasers into the lens. Don't dip it into water. Blow out the sensor box regularly if you are shooting in tough conditions and changing lenses a lot. I use a blower and avoid canned air if possible. I prefer compressed nitrogen gas when cleaning any optical equipment.

It's been performing very well. And believe me, I'm putting it through hell.

 

[Alexander Ibrahim]

The "issues" and stories are for the most part just that, stories.

Here is an example of a story that has been repeated by those with something against Red.

I had an overheat once on a Red One on build 17 I think it was.

The fan was set too low, and we'd been running in about 100º in studio for a while. (Don't get me going on that detail.) The camera was on the edge all day, but it was working.

Then, around hour 14, we did a quick reroute of cables. We didn't block the fan port, but we did restrict airflow. We had an overheat.

I called for B camera (an EX-1 if I recall) to be set up, but by the time B was on set, the Red was back up.

As a precaution, I decided to give the R1 more time off, and sent it to work on the rigging set. I only had 3 shots on the scene we were up for.

In practice what really needed a break were my AC's. See the initial issue, a cable blocking the fans, was human error. It turns out the AC's skipped 1st meal to do some catching up unbeknownst to me, and 2nd meal was late, so they had no break after 14 hours.

The real solution, once I figured that out, was that I sent A camera crew home, and ran the Red with B cam's crew. After that ... I made sure and swapped camera crews from time to time. (Essentially instead of A & B cam on one unit, I had two units. I also broke off my rigging crew for 2nd unit. The limitation being that I ran both units as DP.)

So ultimately ... there was no real issue with the R1 even as old as build 17.

Overall I find the Red system more reliable and flexible than 35mm film, and only Arri Alexa and Sony F35 have proven as reliable for cinema work.

 

[Prince Bagdasarian]

I've been using the Scarlet X for nearly one month now and have used it in very hot and dry through extremely cold and damp situations. No issues to report on the camera functionality at all.

I recommend protecting the camera from water, mist, sand, dust, etc... Standard operation stuff for any camera. Don't shoot lasers into the lens. Don't dip it into water. Blow out the sensor box regularly if you are shooting in tough conditions and changing lenses a lot. I use a blower and avoid canned air if possible. I prefer compressed nitrogen gas when cleaning any optical equipment.

It's been performing very well. And believe me, I'm putting it through hell.

Yeah, what Phil said. I'll be puttin mine thru hell soon too. No issues so far!

 

[Christian Munoz D]

I've been using Red One for years in the most harsh conditions you can imagine and no problems at all. I am doing the same with my Epic and no serious issues to report.
I suppose Scarlet will be rock solid like her sisters.

 

[Noah Yuan-Vogel]

The "issues" and stories are for the most part just that, stories.

The positive stories of rock solid stability are also stories, no?

I would advise anyone to try not to build their expectations around anecdotal evidence. As with any device, it is not a question of whether it will fail but when or with what probability in a given time frame under a particular use. Unless someone does a quantitative analysis of defect or failure rates, most of the information available will be conjecture and anecdotes which have little practical application. In the absence of proper research on the matter, it is usually advisable to plan for the worst and hope for the best. Clearly, as with any camera or device, especially in mass production, there is some history of failures or defects in prior products and probably already some history of occasional issues. Fortunately it is likely that Scarlet's accessibility will mean that once they ship in large numbers they will be very available if you need a replacement in the field and there will be a very large and active support community. The safest approach would be to learn how to use that community and make smart decisions about firmware updates or bug workarounds, and never assume any piece of equipment is infallible.

With cameras that are so rich with features and complex and sometimes experimental internal software, for example, it may be safer to avoid trying new things on set. Going back to my story about how EPIC stopped booting for me on set once and had to be reflashed, that only happened because I switched it to 4kHD mode in the field, after using plenty of 5k and 2k. I didn't need to switch it to 4kHD mode, but I did because I wanted to see how it compared and it crashed the camera. If I had just stuck to the modes that I had been using and knew to be working, I would not have encountered the issue. Moral of the story, better not to try new modes of operation in the field you havent tested if you can avoid it, and if you can, test all modes of operation and all operating environments before even thinking about trusting a camera in the field.