How cheap can they get?

[Nathaniel Kramer]

Ketch, with all due respect, and think you are a very nice person given your posts and your popularity...BUT... I do not know what you are smoking or maybe you have mixed up the amount of zeroes on your checks - or perhaps its lira and not $ .. There aren't any DP's in NYC that make 10k a day... and the very few that may be making that amount are represented by CAA or other top hollywood agents, and they certainly are not posting on reduser as they are way too busy..

A good DP In NYC might make 2k per day as a day rate. If his package is good, then maybe an extra 2 to 2.5k for epic, superspeeds etc, but thats only for a 1 day job - once you get multiple days, the rate comes down on a per day rate.. For your package then its probably more since you have everything!!! But advertising clients do not care if your on master primes, cookes or even nikon.. THEY JUST DONT.. Good DIT's get 750 a day.. Good AC 300 to 500 (non union). 10 k a day is doable yes- as a fashion/advertising stills fotog shooting national advert.. 2 to 4 k for catalogue, NOT AS A DP . I am both a photographer and a DP, and I can tell you the rates for good fotogs is much higher than great DP's on a day for day basis.. just sayin....

 

[Curt Pair]

This issue re-emerges on RedUser regularly, typically after some upgrade/new product has brought a few hundred (or thousand) new owner-ops into the RED sphere. Some percentage of the new buyers discover that just having a cool camera does not actually make clients materialize in front of them, who knew? ;-)

I don't mean to be mean, but I had run a production company and been the owner-op of a Sony broadcast camera package for 10 years before I put down my $1,000 deposit at NAB 2006. I knew that even if the body was only $17,500 that a proper professional camera package with lenses and all of the other things one needs would be more like $75,000 so unless you have a good rental house or two nearby you better be able to realistically forecast enough work to make payments on $75K and be compensated for your time.

Even with my years of experience and existing client list I barely made it through 2008/2009 as I bid on dozens of projects that were unable to secure funding, just got canned or skated on their invoices. What made it even tougher, and still does, is people who try to stay alive by workng for unsustainable rates. I am genuinely sympathetic with folks who love this work, bought a camera and are trying to bootstrap their way to success. Really. That said, working for less than cost only erodes rates for all of us and if you do manage to get a few decent clients and survive you will eventually end up needing to charge market rates (or close to) in order to stay in business, buy a house, have a family, etc.

I am far too litigation averse to suggest anything even remotely like price fixing in a public forum, but please, use your heads people. Undercutting the market by 20% to establish yourself is one thing, that's part of a free market, but offering camera packages and on set services for 70% less than the going rate is a best a short term salve for you and a serious problem for the community you want to be a part of. Just sayin'

Cheers - #19

Blair, I couldn't agree more... which is why I laughed at this post when my buddy sent it to me. He was upset that he missed out on a work opportunity... I explained he didn't miss out on anything... Further the "exposure" on his gear was more than his paycheck... if something happened to the gear... it's all over for that rate!

I'm like Ketch... I have a minimum, and do my best not to drop below it!

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

Curt, I suppose I shouldn't be surprised that someone who agrees with me also named their camera "Opus" as I did RedOne #19.

You have excellent taste sir! ,-)

Cheers - #19

 

[Björn Benckert]

DP Owner Operator, with a Fully loaded Epic M, Lenses and Support, with a DIT portable station, 10k per day, anything less, only if I think the project is truly special to me, okay for this rate I'm also usually the Director/co-Producer.

Any ways, never gone below 6k per day.


All other crew comes at extra cost standard rate.

All other they can go and charge $20 a day for as much as I care, those that Hire them should expect what they pay for.

Are you talking euros or lire

 

[Bing Bailey]

I imagine all the dp's used to shooting film and with cameras nobody could afford to own complained a lot when these young dp's who owned these 4k digital cameras came along and undercut them. everything goes in cycles. its inevitable that now that red shooters become established scarlet shooters would undercut them. this isn't something that will ever change. technology gets faster , better , cheaper. the only hope is you get chosen for your skill/craft and taste. but with budgets on tv, commercials and music videos dropping I wouldn't bet my life on it