How can edit on a 4k timeline in Premier and display to a 1080P monitor in real time?

[JR Monteiro]

I am really enjoying editing my projects on a 4k timeline but am not sure how to get this workflow to display video on my video monitor. I have a Black Magic Intensity Pro card but it only works when I am editing the footage on a 1080 timeline. Is there any card that will do this in real time? Does the Red Rocket do this? I can't seem to get a clear answer on this.

 

[Bruce Ingram]

From what I've seen and researched, the Matrox boxes are about the only way to display 4K (or higher) timelines on 1080p screens. It at least works with Premiere CS6 (seen with my own eyes). No knowledge of rather the Red Rocket will downconvert on the fly.

 

[Christopher Barrett]

Heh... I called BMD about this and they were all ...."well yeah... you're monitor is 1080 right? Of course you can't port a 4k timeline to it" I have heard that the AJA card will do just this thing... sample down to your viewing monitor, I can't confirm that, tho. The Rocket will not do what you want, it only displays via RedCine-X, not Premier.

Good luck,
CB

 

[Mike Harrington]

Honestly I just go displayport out from my quadro.....10 bit rgb...
resizes to 1080p

 

[JR Monteiro]

I was wondering about that Mike. Which Quadro card do you have and is that an analog connector, dvi or hdmi?

 

[Mike Harrington]

Displayport is the connector...
I have 3 cards in my system....2 gtx for CUDA apps and one cheap quadro 2000 for 10bit output
That is the easiest way to get 10bit out of adobe....and RGB as well...but only out of displayport on a quadro....
Nvidia intentionally removed 10bit from gtx through a driver years ago

Now if you don't have a 10bit monitor , you can easily monitor out of a gtx....or ati for that matter.....and the scaling will be automatic...

No real sense going with an external card unless you need SDI for monitoring.....

 

[Kirk.Attard]

Hi all. Very interesting point JR. I am in the same boat. I am in the process of buying a 1080p sony oled. I use a 2011 imac. I can edit a 4k timeline. Will I not be able to monitor the 4k timeline on the secondary monitor if I attach the monitor via any black magic external box? At the moment there are no external boxes that handle 4k. Only internal cards.

I would appreciate a workflow if someone is using a similar 4k approach.

 

[JR Monteiro]

Thanks for the great information Mike. I looked at the Quadro 2000 online it has 3 connectors 2 of them look like HDMI ports but they are labeled "Display Ports" and there is a display port to DVI adaptor. Is that what you use to get 10 bit video? Or is there a different adaptor I would need? Also I was planning to buy a GTX 680 4GB cuda card that should work with Premier. I would use that to run my monitors and the Quadro to run my video screen thus bypassing the need for a Black Magic or AJA card. Do you have any issues with the monitor gamma etc. Is this a sufficient solution for color correction if I am using a good 10 bit monitor?

 

[Mike Harrington]

JR...
those are not HDMI...those are displayport(DP)
displayport is connector type just like HDMI, DVI, and SDI
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DisplayPort

they look similar, but they are not...

only quadro displayport will give you 10bit out

adapters converting dvi or HDMI to displayport will not give you 10 bit...

Monitor gamma is not an issue if you have the right monitor....not really much to do with the graphics card...also a 10bit DP monitors are few and far between as there are maybe a dozen models (dreamcolor being one)

 

[Kirk.Attard]

What i wish to ask is. Will i be able to view a 4k timeline if i have a 10bit system on a 1080 monitor as secondary monitor. I dont think it should be a prob. I think it would scale as usual but i'm not hundred percent sure.

Thanks all.

 

[Joel Arvidsson]

Heh... I called BMD about this and they were all ...."well yeah... you're monitor is 1080 right? Of course you can't port a 4k timeline to it" I have heard that the AJA card will do just this thing... sample down to your viewing monitor, I can't confirm that, tho. The Rocket will not do what you want, it only displays via RedCine-X, not Premier.

Good luck,
CB

I thought you could do this with the 4k extreme card. Wonder why this should be so hard.

 

[JR Monteiro]

What i wish to ask is. Will i be able to view a 4k timeline if i have a 10bit system on a 1080 monitor as secondary monitor. I dont think it should be a prob. I think it would scale as usual but i'm not hundred percent sure.

Thanks all.

Hi Kirk,
I just tried what Mike suggested and it worked fine. I took the second DVI port on my old Quadro FX 4800 card and connected it to my 42" Toshiba monitor and it immediately showed my extended desktop. Then I went into Permier CS6 "Preferences" menu and selected "Playback" and it gave me three options "Black Magic Playback" "Adobe Monitor 1 2550x1600" and "Adobe Monitor 2 1920x1080" I chose Adobe Monitor 2 since my 2550 res monitor is my computer monitor and voilla. A perfectly scaled (8bit) HD video display from my 4K timeline. Unfortunately my old Mac Tower is a 2,1 and will not support the 64bit mode that will give me the advantages of Hardware assisted Mercury playback engine. So I'll be building a new system soon most likely a Hackintosh.

 

[Ryan Hamblin]

I use the Matrox MXO2 mini and it works perfect. cheap too!

 

[Kirk.Attard]

I think a good cheap option for any thunderbolt enabled computer would be the Blackmagic mini monitor. Its a thunderbolt 10bit 4:2:2 equipped with both hdmi and 3g sdi output. I think once you connect the thunderbolt to it the connected display should connect as a secondaru monitor. All for $145. I think its a pretty neat solution.

I dont see any reason why premiere should have any difficulty with this setup. I think one can simply undock the program monitor and slide it onto the secondary monitor.

What do you guys think?

 

[Kirk.Attard]

What we are missing here is that I dont think that we actually need a 4k card or external box to monitor a 4k timeline on an hd monitor. I think a 4k card is only needed when a 4k projector or display are connected.

 

[JR Monteiro]

I use the Matrox MXO2 mini and it works perfect. cheap too!

Hi Ryan,
How is your MXO2 Mini connected to your computer? Is it visible to Premier? Is it visible in the Preferences/Playback window?

 

[Mike Harrington]

thats right kirk....

dont waste your money if you dont need it....

I also have blackmagic and the matrox mini mxo2...and use them maybe 1% of the time....more for a capture card
when I go out to SDI...I just send a file to a studio I work with.
90% of my stuff is digital delivery....no tape

a little note about the mxo2....they advertised 10 bit RGB(why I got it) then on my tests....it clearly had more banding in RGB then an 8 bit signal.....
I wrote support and challenged them on the accuracy of there 10 bit claim...

they since have reworked the specs which now say "10 bit YUV, 8 bit RGB"

but honestly it's RGB output looked more like 6 bit....

 

[Mike Harrington]

Hi Ryan,
How is your MXO2 Mini connected to your computer? Is it visible to Premier? Is it visible in the Preferences/Playback window?

you install it and premiere sees it....its connected via pci card or express card to laptop
You may have to use it's preset sequences to get playback...cant remember....its been sitting on a shelf for almost a year....

If you think you need a card, I would recommend blackmagic or AJA......a lot of the apps I use wont support Matrox (cineform firstlight, Davinci, ect ect)
and the output from Fusion was hideous....the quadro is 10x better quality

 

[JR Monteiro]

Kirk,
Thunderbolt seems like the way to go. I have an TB Intensity Extreme which I use on my laptop unfortunately I only have one Thunderbolt port on my laptop, none on my desktop. That is why I am thinking of building a Hackintosh with the Gigabyte dual Thunderbolt Motherboard. I can build the whole thing for under 2K including the GTX 680 4Meg graphics card with an ridiculous 1536 cuda cores.

 

[Michael Romano]

I use BMD's Decklink Extreme 3D & Ultrastudio 3D with the BMD 1080p preset for SDI monitoring on 1080p 10Bit monitors. The actual image critical work is done in Resolve. To finish in PPCS6, just copy your edit onto a RED 4K timeline and size to frame. Export. Should work just fine. You don't need to monitor in 4K unless you have a 4K display and I/O.