How bad is an Improper Shutdown? Low Battery Warning?

[Gene Sung]

I know it’s my fault, but since getting the Scarlet-W about 3 weeks ago I’ve had two improper shutdowns due to the battery dying. I have 150wh which lasts about 2 hours with 7Q and wireless transmitter, but wow… the batteries go so fast! From reading some other threads, seems like others often forget to monitor the batteries as improper shutdown is fairly common on Red. Often, when you're super busy the voltage / percentage icons are easy to forget about.

I’ve shot for years on Canon, Sony and still shoot on an ENG Panasonic HDX900 (battery hog) and I’ve never, not once had the camera shut off from a dead battery. On the Sony and HDX900 there’s an obnoxious “Low Battery” icon / type that endlessly flashes so it’s hard to miss.

My questions are:

1) How bad is having an improper shutdown / dead battery? Obviously, it’s to be avoided but will it fry my S-W? Neither time was I recording footage.

2) Can Red program into firmware a “Low Battery” warning like Sony and Panasonic? Something that flashes like the FS7 or HDX900?

The Sony FS7 goes so far as allowing the user to set what voltage triggers the low battery warning. Something like this would be so useful.

 

[Terry VerHaar]

IIRC, the battery indicator turns yellow, then red until finally it tells you it will shut down in X seconds. No audible warning that I have ever been aware of, though.

Personally, I have had this happen a few times shooting on RED (usually my fault) and have never lost a file. I don't think it ever happened to me during a take, though.

 

[Joey Balmforth]

I've had it happen to me quite a bit. The only time its been a problem is when I've been recording, which has happened twice. Those times, the file that was being recorded was mildly corrupted. I say "mildly" corrupted because i could see the files in camera I just couldn't play them back in camera, but they imported into Premiere like nothing happened. That being said, you may have just wasted your time ready this because my experience is all based on DSMC1 cameras and I have no idea if its the same on DSMC2.

 

[Gene Sung]

IIRC, the battery indicator turns yellow, then red until finally it tells you it will shut down in X seconds. No audible warning that I have ever been aware of, though.

Personally, I have had this happen a few times shooting on RED (usually my fault) and have never lost a file. I don't think it ever happened to me during a take, though.

Does the countdown to X seconds work only with "Smart" Red batteries? Probably no countdown with "Dumb" batteries that only display voltage, correct?

 

[Terry VerHaar]

Does the countdown to X seconds work only with "Smart" Red batteries? Probably no countdown with "Dumb" batteries that only display voltage, correct?

I have only used RED bricks, REDvolts and REDvolt XLs, so I can't be sure. And the countdown begins at about 20-30 seconds or so, not a lot of warning.

 

[Gene Sung]

I have only used RED bricks, REDvolts and REDvolt XLs, so I can't be sure. And the countdown begins at about 20-30 seconds or so, not a lot of warning.

30 Seconds! Wow, that's fast. I just need to train myself to watch out for it.

On the FS7 the Low Battery warning starts flashing in the middle of the screen at least 5 minutes before it dies. Kind of nice.

 

[Gene Sung]

I've had it happen to me quite a bit. The only time its been a problem is when I've been recording, which has happened twice. Those times, the file that was being recorded was mildly corrupted. I say "mildly" corrupted because i could see the files in camera I just couldn't play them back in camera, but they imported into Premiere like nothing happened. That being said, you may have just wasted your time ready this because my experience is all based on DSMC1 cameras and I have no idea if its the same on DSMC2.

Hi Jarred or Brent @ Red,

If you just happen to read this, is it possible to get a better low voltage warning - something that flashes "Low Voltage" in the middle of the screen, kind of like all my other cameras? It would be such an easy firmware code. Since getting the S-W, I've had multiple improper shutdown because it's an easy oversight when you're running around doing a bunch of stuff, especially on small crews.

My friend who is also a new S-W owner is so fearful of an improper shutdown (it's happened to him as well) that he switches his batteries at 13v out of fear of forgetting. I do the same thing, but it seems like such a waste of battery juice and time to switch out at 13v when there's still quite a bit of battery life left.

Kind of like premature ejaculation, but with batteries. I would love to get full use of my Red and not have to pull out early.

Maybe when the Red hit's 12v, a flashing "Low Voltage" warning in the middle of the screen would be great, then I know it will die soon and I can take full advantage of the battery every time since it always gives me adequate warning. On my FS7, it goes as far as allowing you to program what voltage sets off the warning. Improper shutdown has never, not once happened on any of my other cameras in almost 10 years of shooting just because they flash an obnoxious warning. Would be great if Red has something similar.

I'm a big fan of the camera and this is the only issue that majorly bugs me about the S-W.

 

[Hugh Scully]

I have a Scarlet Dragon and I've experienced unorderly shutdowns on more occasions than I care to think about. I have shut down in takes and what worries me, is not damaging the camera, but damage to the media. I'd hate like hell to lose a 512 GB mini-mag as a result so as a result I am hyper-vigilant about watching that damn voltage. It seems like between each take, if the monitor is with the AC I'm asking, "how's the voltage?" It's a pain in the neck.

PLEASE implement Gene's suggestion. I assume that the situation is slightly better on "RED-aware" batteries as a premium for purchasing them. That's cool. I get that. But some sort of flashing battery icon that appeared on the monitor at a user-defined voltage would be SO helpful! It would be one less thing to worry about on set.

 

[Gene Sung]

I assume that the situation is slightly better on "RED-aware" batteries as a premium for purchasing them. That's cool. I get that. But some sort of flashing battery icon that appeared on the monitor at a user-defined voltage would be SO helpful! It would be one less thing to worry about on set.

I'm wondering how much better it would be on Red aware batteries though as it's still just a small icon on the screen? All my previous cameras had "Smart" batteries, but in a rush I probably would have missed the battery percentage except those cameras flash the "Low Battery" warning in the middle of the screen.

It's super annoying to have to be hyper vigilant about battery monitoring on a shoot when there is so much going one, especially since it's such an easy firmware addition.

Thanks

 

[Björn Benckert]

I would not worry to much. We pull power on the camera quite a bit and as long as you are not recording the files seems to be fine and camera starts up without any fuss, except that scary "Improper shutdown sign" that needs some time before you can click it so it goes away. If your battery overheat or such and the power is shut of during recording things can be worse then usually the last file recorded is not visible on the mag and you might need roundead to recover it. This happens when volt and XL´s overheat, had it happening repeatedly in a dive house in warm water. They simply shut of at 70 deg or such.

 

[Bob Gundu]

Perhaps Foolcontrol can build a warning into the app?

 

[Gene Sung]

I would not worry to much. We pull power on the camera quite a bit and as long as you are not recording the files seems to be fine and camera starts up without any fuss, except that scary "Improper shutdown sign" that needs some time before you can click it so it goes away.

Thanks for the re-assurance Bjorn and this even happens to very knowledgable, seasoned Red vets like yourself. Make me feel a lot better and less worried.

I had the Red go out twice while recording now, and thankfully both times the data was safe and card didn't crash.

I guess my thing is this all can be so easily avoided with a some easy coding which will allow for longer / less vigilant camera use and no fear of data damage.

 

[Wil Wong]

Most I my clients don't pay attention even though I put a label saying "Switch battery at 11 volts" right on the monitor.

Since I'm still on the DSMC1, I luckily have Red Volts in my side handle that does shutdown the camera when low powered (after the v-mount batteries have drained and it switched over to the red volts...without my clients even noticing).

I do like the Blueshape mini batteries supposedly wifi option. If I could monitor the batteries on my phone, I can catch it better for my clients.

I too fear damaging my Red with improper shutdowns but so far all is fine.

 

[Luis Ismael]

I´ve done this request several times.
In a set the team is very focus on the image and on the action and several times the camera just shut down.
If the low power warning just flash it will be great.
And for the guys that don't want anything flashing could be menu on and off.

 

[Jake Wilganowski]

It's no biggie

 

[Jason Han]

It's a big problem because if the camera shuts down while recording, that whole clip gets corrupted! I don't get any countdown or warnings either, just shuts off once it's out of power. As Gene mentioned, I now am too scared to go below 13V after that corrupt file incident.

 

[Robert Berger]

I always use a hotswap www.bebob-rouge.com so i never have to shut the camera down and get a warning to change the battery!

 

[Jake Wilganowski]

It's a big problem because if the camera shuts down while recording, that whole clip gets corrupted! I don't get any countdown or warnings either, just shuts off once it's out of power. As Gene mentioned, I now am too scared to go below 13V after that corrupt file incident.

The whole clip should not get corrupted - the clip is written in 4 GB chunks, so just the last piece will be corrupted

 

[Luis Ismael]

It´s the same thing everywhere.
It´s important for others not a big deal for others.
Having a flash signal for low batt it´s a simple thing to do... and the others that thing it´s a Big deal... it´s important.
Who have a important file corrupted because of this thinks differently.

 

[Gene Sung]

When battery cut happened on the last music video, of course the AC had to throw in the obligatory: "Red sucks... Arri is better... Blah, blah..." We were in the zone, so easy to miss.

BTW, is this an issue on Alexa's? I don't know that system.

Red has worked super hard and fixed issues to silence the naysayers - Black shade, fan noise, temperature, etc... So why not do this super simple, but possibly very crucial fix since data loss is involved? Even just to silence the haters is worth it.

Also, I did not buy "Dumb" batteries to save a few bucks. The reason I got my Bebobs is because they were the lightest 150wh I could find and the company has a good rep. I had not idea the improper shutdown would be such an issue. Sometimes you want a non-red compliant battery for whatever reason. Would be great if all batteries had better low voltage warning.