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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Hot Mirror/IRND/Mirror ND Filter Matrix [Parts 1-4]

what do you mean by contamination?
and, will long term contamination cause any other problems that you know of?
 
It's only ambient IR "colour" contamination of recorded images - it doesn't have any long term damage implications for the camera.
 
Evin Grant said:
Ryan Avery at Schneider optics has sent me a new formula of their Tru-Cut 750 Hot Mirror filter. Initial testing shows much less off axis color shifting, pretty much on par or better than the Tiffen or Rosco Hot Mirror. I still need to do IR filtering and combo testing but it looks promising. Formatt will also be sending me thier Hot Mirror. I also asked for and was provided Schneider's Sapphire Blue 1 & 2 filters. These filters are similar to 80d & 80c filters respectively. Some recent testing shows significant advantages using these filters with tungsten lighting. Especially the Sapphire 1 which only needs about 2/3 stop compensation but raises the effective color temp 1200 degrees and reducing chroma noise. Lastly, I have finally been bitten by the Pancro double reflection issue. I still feel the Pancros offer the best solution but caution should be exercised and combining them with other filters should be avoided whenever possible.

I'll try to get the more detailed new tests up as soon as possible but I do have a bunch of shoots coming up...
Stay tuned.
Click to expand...
Hello Evin Grant
I have a question.
I would like know where you use the Hot Mirror filter. When i use 2 filters, like a ND 2.1 and a Hot Mirror, where should i use the hot mirror on the mattebox, close the lens or in the front?
Thanks for your help
 
Hot mirrors, because they are reflective should be the front filter to avoid unwanted light reflections bouncing back off another filter in front of it.
 
ericyoung said:
Hot mirrors, because they are reflective should be the front filter to avoid unwanted light reflections bouncing back off another filter in front of it.
Click to expand...

but i thought the hot mirrors / trucolorIR were to come after NDs, since they are to "balances the visible and infrared light" after NDs? pls correct me here.

also if a polarizer is used, where would it go in a stack?
 
You can use one and only one hot mirror and it must be placed in front with the CORRECT side facing out. There must be no reflective filters or coatings downstream - only absorbtion filters. You must also use hard mattes as a well behaving boy would.

I haven't experienced any problems even with the unique Pancro ND 2.0 :cool:
 
Pawel Achtel said:
You can use one and only one hot mirror and it must be placed in front with the CORRECT side facing out. There must be no reflective filters or coatings downstream - only absorbtion filters. You must also use hard mattes as a well behaving boy would.

I haven't experienced any problems even with the unique Pancro ND 2.0 :cool:
Click to expand...

so it is:

1 Pancro IRNDs as stand alone filters; they are to always go in front.
2 if standard NDs, then Rosco Trucolor or alike - always in front of them.
3 what about polarizer? where would that go? i'm assuming itcant be used in #1; what would be the order of it placing it in #2?

thanks!
 
Thanks for the post Evin. I just used the Tiffen Hot Mirror for my shoot in Japan. They were the bomb. Will post some RED stills once I get permission.
 
Alexander Alexandrov said:
so whats the final verdict as of today? still Pancro .9 1.2 1.5 IRNDs when used solo?
Click to expand...
Yes.

Or Formatt/Schneider when used in conjunction with other ND's.

Just as a side note...on my last shoot, I asked for a Rosco Hot Mirror. We liked it and it performed quite well, but we had a couple beefs with it (Colton Davie was my 2nd). First, it was a pretty rough filter; the edges were straight-ground and not round and smooth like a typical filter. It's also rather thin and fragile-looking. We also had a very difficult time determining which side was the reflective side. We were able to obtain the same reflections and colour shifts from both sides. So, we picked one side and stuck with it and got great results.

In the future, I'd like to try the Schneiders for sure, as I'm a big fan of their ND's.
 
Evin Grant said:
I also asked for and was provided Schneider's Sapphire Blue 1 & 2 filters. These filters are similar to 80d & 80c filters respectively. Some recent testing shows significant advantages using these filters with tungsten lighting. Especially the Sapphire 1 which only needs about 2/3 stop compensation but raises the effective color temp 1200 degrees and reducing chroma noise.
Click to expand...

Where can I find the numbers on all four filters Sapphire Blue 1, 2, 80d and 80c? I would love to somehow be able to compare them if they had a kelvin shift number and a light loss number for each.
 
Mike Thorn said:
Yes.

Or Formatt/Schneider when used in conjunction with other ND's.

Just as a side note...on my last shoot, I asked for a Rosco Hot Mirror. We liked it and it performed quite well, but we had a couple beefs with it (Colton Davie was my 2nd). First, it was a pretty rough filter; the edges were straight-ground and not round and smooth like a typical filter. It's also rather thin and fragile-looking. We also had a very difficult time determining which side was the reflective side. We were able to obtain the same reflections and colour shifts from both sides. So, we picked one side and stuck with it and got great results.

In the future, I'd like to try the Schneiders for sure, as I'm a big fan of their ND's.
Click to expand...

The Rosco Trucolor IR Cut filter does not matter which way round it is.

The side with the writing on is the side with the IR Cut layer, and it is not sandwiched behind glass, so the only issue is being especially gentle and careful when cleaning that side!
 
Pancro is honored with contributing
to the 08 primetime emmy win of Adam
Beckman for his Documentary
"The American Life-Escape" on showtime. Adam said in a recent message "You'll be happy to know that Pancro filters played a HUGE role in the photography of that episode and I hope I can win us the gold and get you another one!!

ADAM WAS ALSO RECENTLY NOMINATED
FOR TWO PRIMETIME AWARDS FOR 09
Outstanding Cinematography and
Outstanding Director-(Adam uses Pancro IR+ND and Various ND Grads)
:yesnod:
__________________
Brian Dougherty
Optical Tech/VP
Pancro
www.pancro.com
Brian Dougherty(PANCRO) is online now Report Post Edit/Delete Message
 

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Bought a Formatt set from Abelcine as well and can only confirm what Luca stated.
 
For those who have used a Tiffen hot mirror + ND combo filter, I have a question for you on color shift.

Like many of you here, I almost pulled the trigger on buying the Pancro, until I read about the ghosting problem that is so tricky to get rid of. While I prefer the Pancro for its lack of color shift, I'm starting to look into the best hot mirror + ND combo that has minimal color shift.

According to the filter matrix test, the Tiffen seems have the best performance in this regard. But since I'm working with a non-RAW-based format and one that is highly compressed, i simply don't want to rely on post color correction to get rid of any residue color cast. The GH1's white check WB is said to behave not very well, and I don't want to use that to compensate for color cast neither. I think I'm working with a much smaller tolerance than the RED in terms of color shift.

So what's your personal experience with the Tiffen? Do you see any color shift to you eyes before and after you install the filter? Without color correction, can you intercut footage shot with and without the hot mirror?

How about the Formatt filer? How does it perform in terms of color shift?

thx

Jack
 
wow quite a read, but well worth it. Thanks so much for all of the insight.
 
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