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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Herzog thread shut down why?

Martin Weiss says: "The one point I take issue with is Herzog (whom I have lots of respect for) complaining about the boot-up time. How I read this statement is "we have chosen the wrong tool for the project"."

So one point is enough to shut it down? The man has been willing to eat his shoe before, maybe he would again with the Epic release... why don't we let things take their natural course?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ymyiRXCszc

2:00 minute mark of that youtube video seems to jibe more with the RED message than talking about a known issue that's been fixed goes against said message. Seems like this is a relationship that's bound to be reconciled.
 
More criticism is accepted than 18 months ago, however this is Reduser.


Dominic Cochran said:
Martin Weiss says: "The one point I take issue with is Herzog (whom I have lots of respect for) complaining about the boot-up time. How I read this statement is "we have chosen the wrong tool for the project"."

So one point is enough to shut it down? The man has been willing to eat his shoe before, maybe he would again with the Epic release... why don't we let things take their natural course?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ymyiRXCszc

2:00 minute mark of that youtube video seems to jibe more with the RED message than talking about a known issue that's been fixed goes against said message. Seems like this is a relationship that's bound to be reconciled.
Click to expand...
 
Thread was not deleted... it was closed. If there is more to be said, please do. But disrespectful posts will be deleted.

Jim
 
I sense a bit of bias here. Herzog is a visionary and passionate artist, always willing to take risks with a long and successful career. He's also very poetical on his rhetoric so the "4 and 1/2 minutes" statement is an "impression".
It looks like his experience with R1 was not the best. Who cares who's at fault? The AC? Not having a hot swap? It really matters? No. The man has spoken and he'll be heard by many. Other opinions are available and most of them are very positive.
It's also my impression that he'll give future RED cameras another shot. It's just part of his philosophy.
 
The few bad apples on these boards always ruin it for everyone
 
Just a few things to think about:

* If you think that Werner did not research the Red One before selecting it for that film, you are crazy. There were obvious advantages to using the camera that attracted him and his DP.

* Werner is, in large part, a documentary film-maker. If something spontaneously happens, he wants to capture it. That frustration can often fall into the realm of Murphy's law.

* His one criticism of the Red One has already been addressed in the Epic. Even then, as it has been pointed out, this issue could have been solved on the R1 with the correct equipment.

* Film cameras with 400ft magazines or 100ft spools are constantly breaking on film roll outs. On some cameras, a mag change can easily take longer than a reboot of a Red One. As an AD, these changes were commonly a chance to give your actors quick bathroom breaks.

EVERY camera (to this point) has its strengths and weaknesses.

Some film camera are built like a tank with amazing film registration (Mitchell cameras) but they are heavy and ergonomically unfriendly. Others, are easily mobile, but lack the ability to use beautiful glass.

A Sony EX3 with a Letus attached provides a beautiful image. It even lets you stream an uncompressed image out of the HD/SDI port. However, it is front heavy and not easy to hand hold. Conversely, the Canon DSLRs (5D, 7D, 1D) are very small and easy to hand hold, but they have a highly compressed output.

The Epic will have unheard of resolution.

*It's modularity with give it the ability to play the role of a small hand held camera, studio camera, and everything in between.

*It's high speed capability will rob the Phantom of some of it's usefulness.

*It's ability to quickly swap lens mounts with give it a versatility not seen in any camera to date.

and the list goes on ....

"If you have no critics, you'll likely have no success"
-Malcolm "Epic" X
 
R1 can be extremely light, mobile and pretty useful in any documentary type of shooting

even with handheld just because it's all up to the user if he/she know how to customize it.
 
Sometimes RED just needs some time (booting, overheat, formatting, etc.) I have become fond of calling these "RED Moments" on set, most people on set just give the camera dept. a few more seconds and then we are back underway.

This being said, I understand how any filmmaker could find fault with any camera.

and in response to Herzog's light jabs at RED, isn't he right about the camera being immature (developed in the last 10 years) and by computer people, all of us "Digital Cinema" (I have a bachelors of art degree with those words on it) people are some what computer people.

I also, had to be talked down from leaving a set the other day when while attempting to shoot night exteriors without a generator the Director/Producer said. "The EX-3 would be able to expose that"
 
I think it is all about tools. Some people that post do so without thinking things through a whole lot. Red is a tool, the EX-3 is a different tool. Depends on the persons preferences.

If I need a Robinson screw driver and someone gives me a Phillips it's not going to work no matter how much I love the Phillips screw driver.

It is not about defending the ideal to the death, it is about stepping back and looking at things from a different perspective.

I think Jannard is just tired of people pointing out the obvious flaws with the Red camera without also pointing out that this same camera can do things no other camera can do.
 
In my eyes, there is no reason to shut down the camera until lunch. Hot swap cables, magic boxes, you name it. No shark fin V-mount adapters [heavy!] or extra batteries [heavy and complicated!], just some well thought-out cables or distribution boxes and you'll be in business.

Like all things, there are solutions for the RED ONE's limitations. And when they're done right, they shouldn't take any time at all. If things are going wrong on set, people are losing time to camera or simple problems are becoming a big deal... somebody messed up. Somebody didn't know the tool well enough to fix things.

One man's opinion. I didn't read that thread and only skimmed this one.
 
Agree with Brook, there's tools for every job and tools to fix limitations...

Camera booting up isn't a major issue with me...it's actually quite cool in my eyes after having used an FX1 for a while, sure the FX1 boots up quite quick compared to the RED but the RED's a damn computer for god sake! One of my mates came over and even pointed out how much a beast it is...but a sleek one at that!

The limitations are being fixed and dealing with them on set just gives that vibe that its an actual product. Every product has issues...if it didn't...why would anyone bother to make another camera if the first was so perfect? Let alone why would anyone go on to make X amount of brains and beyond! Hell...why don't we just all shoot with camcorders from now on...they seem rather perfect haha...:biggrin5:

Though a lot of issues I've noticed stem from as Brook said people not knowing their stuff... met a DP once that was shooting something at my college and they were on an EX3 and he was going on about how the RED was vaporware etc. sort of looked at him and just grinned...
 
I agree with Brook, except about the Shark fin V mount adapter, cause if thats all you got.... The important thing is to keep the camera running, don't turn it off unless you absolutely have too.
I have the 2nd Gen Switronix adapter with the Red one-side battery readout. I would like the new one if someone wants to make a donation :):thumbup1:
 
Recently I had someone say, "If we had the HVX-200 we'd be shooting right now.". I then put on the Tokina 11-16 and they couldn't say anything else for their mouth hanging open.:thumbup:
 
This happens when a camera becomes a production standard. Unlike Panavision, Arri or Aaton, Redone was brought to the market as a constantly update prototype.
Opinions should always be accepted, specially if coming from one of the greatest filmmakers of all times.
 
Nima,

I think R1 has progressed way beyond the state where you could seriously call it a prototype.

And don't worry, we'll keep living with people, famous or not, having negative things to say about RED cameras. But those will be debated.

Love your avatar, btw. And please change your user name.
 
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