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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Here comes the RED Scarlet,Epic, Dragon Rip-OFFS

Prince Anthony

Prince Anthony

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NAB 2014 is the year the Cliche RED had in the 4K-6K market ends?, forget AJA, SCION, BMD URSA....the KINEFINITY is the killer.....codec, DR or all that techno crap we all yap about here....the market is polarised and busting loose....Pricess HAVE fallen...6K is soon going to $6K....

http://www.kinefinity.com/kineraw_mini/?lang=en



...WHAT IS red GOING TO DO ABOUT IT? Huh?
 
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crappy codec, less latitude, 14 claimed stops vs 16.5, 12/10 bit vs 16 bit. I dont think that camera even comes close to what RED currently has.
 
the 4k camera they have is amazingly low priced. their 6k version when completely kitted out is like almost 20k. i wonder how good the images will be? i'm almost tempted to grab the 4k model just as a B cam but am awaiting more details about the actual images
 
..codec, DR or all that techno crap we all yap about here....the market is polarised and busting loose....Pricess HAVE fallen...6K is soon going to $6K....Look dont get me wrong....shoot a feature with a 5D MKII and so long as its well lit, shot and handled and has a good story...the audience will go for it....codec or not...by the end of the day it is 6K at less than say 10K for the body against 30K for a Dragon....Gosh the Dragon is a Bugghatti Veyron in its class and beyond.....but these Cameras are no less in Muscle...like Ferraris?.........Hey RED, The CHINEESE ARE COMING.....and its going to hurt.

 
shoot a FEATURE with a 5D MKII and so long as its well lit, shot and handled and has a good story?

Uhh'' there is something called VFX, 5DMKII would be prefect, i guess
Good luck sir (lol)
 
Prince Anthony said:
..codec, DR or all that techno crap we all yap about here....the market is polarised and busting loose....Pricess HAVE fallen...6K is soon going to $6K....Look dont get me wrong....shoot a feature with a 5D MKII and so long as its well lit, shot and handled and has a good story...the audience will go for it....codec or not...by the end of the day it is 6K at less than say 10K for the body against 30K for a Dragon....Gosh the Dragon is a Bugghatti Veyron in its class and beyond.....but these Cameras are no less in Muscle...like Ferraris?.........Hey RED, The CHINEESE ARE COMING.....and its going to hurt.
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These low price china products fools me once in a while but I'm getting better at it. The worst experience I probably had was when I was doing the electricity for my boat. Spent pretty much all free time during a winter to do all the wiring added wind mills, 6kW power 24V-220V inverter, adding a huge battery bank... and what more.. well I figured I needed a big Generator, so I went of an bought a chinese 5kW diesel generator... Then off for sumer vacation all happy about my little setup, able to power just about anything possible to bring on a boat... well the china generator happen to have a little issue, it overpowered my battery bank when charging... 10k USD of batteries got fried, so new batteries where bought and then not charging with the generator... Then off course the batteries run out so then swapping to the generator... that happen to have another issue... when delivering over 6KW/3 on one node... well it burn it's magnets... So then no power on board. Went to a harbour, guess what, was dumb enough to buy another shit china generator it was really well priced and almost lasted for a full summer before it got a series of issues, starter motor dead, magnets dead, etc. Then I got fed up and bought a small ass honda generator... well it's been working like a charm for the last 7 years :)
 
People will buy these cameras - when they are actually delivered - but so what? No company isa going to own the whole market and many of these buyers may eventually upgrade to RED.

I doubt Jarred is staying awake at night about this.
 
Terry VerHaar said:
People will buy these cameras - when they are actually delivered - but so what? No company isa going to own the whole market and many of these buyers may eventually upgrade to RED.

I doubt Jarred is staying awake at night about this.
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....And I agree with you...but Hey...its a talking point!
 
Terry VerHaar said:
People will buy these cameras - when they are actually delivered - but so what? No company isa going to own the whole market and many of these buyers may eventually upgrade to RED.

I doubt Jarred is staying awake at night about this.
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I think this exactly what Red needs to be thinking about. They won, we will now live in a 4k world. But if everything shoots 4k how can red stand out among an ever growing 4k crowd? Selling the world on 6k or 8k or whatever k isn't going to happen as far as delivery goes at this time I think. The world will go 4k and probably stay there for at least quite some time is my personal guess, but who really knows. There are obvious advantages to over sampling that we all are aware of and have discussed and F65 and Red stand out for this reason, now along with this camera. I think Reds raw ability, over cranks, and success in branding makes it stand out from the ever increasing 4k crowd. Yes a lot of the competitors are only now releasing cameras that match some of the Red One specs, but I just don't know how much 5k or 6k will matter to some producers. I know on almost all the jobs I do, it does matter. I just think relative to all productions going down surely its not enough of a bell and whistle if you live in say a broadcast world, weddings, legitimate industry niches on to themselves that probably do millions or billions a year globally. Whats hot in camera land seems to be a very fickle thing indeed. There are many great 4k tools now a days, so I think with so much diversity now is more important then ever to set the image quality apart. There has to be a reason why big jobs would pay for Alexa or Red if a C300 or BMC or 5D or PD150 or you see where I am going with this is "good enough"...


But I think in general a lot of the mentality on RU is the owner op perspective. I have to agree with that recent CML rant about not marrying a tool. I don't care if you own every Alexa or Phantom ever made its probably a bad idea to marry a brand if you don't work there. I love my Red, I love my Phantom too, one day maybe I can afford an Arri too! I don't buy into the us vs them mentality, we're artists, were professionals, were tech nerds, were all sorts of things, this isn't stocks or baseball teams. I can like multiple tools, I can even use multiple tools on the same production.

I have to agree with the fear of shotty chinese products. I have had many issues as well. I like Red, Mustangs, and American products in general. Its a good thing to support your country I think, and keep us from being a services based economy. So going into this I am not sure if I would want to buy one based on the fear factor. As much BS as people say about Red, hey at least they heard of it, used it, or are talking about it. I haven't heard of this brand until No Film School covered them. They didn't have an English site at first, nor a distributor. Just seems a little too sketchy in general unless it gains traction. The thing I see about cheaper cameras in general is great they managed to water down cutting edge technology, but if no one shoots it, or will pay you to shoot it, what the hell does it even matter? How many shows or films or well paying jobs shoot on these cheaper cameras in general? Thats what scares me. I try to stay involved with lucrative camera brands because it seems to bring opportunities. Successful camera systems aren't too bad to marry, or at least date... Having whats hot, or knowing the workflows seems to work for me well. I don't know if buying a poor mans camera would work, never did for me. BS work, BS rates, I'd rather do something else then work those kinds of gigs I think. So unless I could book a camera at a house and really know the markets there I don't know if I could touch it. There is much funner things to spend money on then a camera that doesn't get booked ever...
 
Kwan Khan said:
Uhh'' there is something called VFX, 5DMKII would be prefect, i guess
Good luck sir (lol)
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Yeah, we've spent way more than an Epic's day rate trying to get VFX to work with 5D footage before that would have been a breeze on RED. Save money, shot HQ.
 
There's a market for Mercedes
There's a market for Yugos
 
For sure RED is a higher quality product (although my Scarlet has fowled up twice over a couple years for no apparent reason) but for sure I'll be looking at the 6K Chinese Dragon. What I don't get is the attitude that these two camera's cannot be compared (dragon and Kinfinity)...what a load of RED fanboyism...I guess we are on Reduser.net but hell, when it comes to shooting indy films for a living, purchasing a dragon doesn't really make sense to me. Purchasing a fully kitted 20K alternative does. And where did we end up agreeing that the Dragon has 16.5 stops of DR? I think the last time I read that thread it went something like "16.5 stops is there, sort of, on paper yeah, but not as it usually is, it depends on how you look at it" which seems very shady to me. And as far as dissing the codec (cDNG), software is adapting very quickly these days, and so are workflows. I don't see it is a big issue in the near future. So for me, as a RED owner, the pros and cons of "upgrading" to a 6K Kinefinity instead of a Dragon seem to be on the pro side at this point. Maybe it'll last me two years, which is when it will be outdated anyway....but so will Red's DSMC body, I'll put money on that.

I guess what I've just written really comes down to being an owner/operator. Of course if the cam was being hired, I would chose the best cam for the job, if the budget allowed it..which in most cases, let's be honest, is Dragon. To swiftly discard the Kinefinity 6K cam is a bit narrow minded if you ask me...
 
How many commenting have seen one?
I have. (not the 6k)
Not sure why this should be any worse than the Ursa or Cion which seems to enthuse.
 
I guess the litmus test, as it was with the DSLR 'revolution' is whether you will ever see a theatrically released movie using it as a principal camera.

That's the test that stresses all areas from speed and ease of use on set plus image quality, to DIT, offlining, vfx right through to delivery.

It took Red a while to sort this and for their partners to be on board to make the workflow streamlined but in the initial instance the image quality was enough to make people persevere. DSLRs fell down here at the top level because quite simply if you can afford enough gear and crew to make 5D footage look amazing, you can almost certainly afford to rent a better camera too.

I wonder where this camera will be positioned. Is it as good as a Scarlet? Is it as good as a Scarlet Dragon? Can it be used economically enough through all processes to be viable in a full pro production?

would be exciting if the answer to some of that was yes.
 
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Filip Orlandic said:
Dude! Yugo has been made in my country for decades!

I'm pretty sure that RED will fill a lawsuit against Kinefinity.
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I guess that the inability to encode CineForm "live", but on offload could be related to the RED Compressed Wavelet RAW patent.
 
Gunleik Groven said:
How many commenting have seen one?
I have. (not the 6k)
Not sure why this should be any worse than the Ursa or Cion which seems to enthuse.
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I have not seen it, but not for lack of trying on my part (I been hitting up all the brands with hot new cams on the horizon to find out more info, Cion esp looked like a quality low end competitor I hoped). The 4k version of Kinefinity doesn't have a "preorder" listing on their site, does this mean its shipping? I'd be tempted to reach out to them to do a shoot out between that and say an Epic? Maybe more cameras if I can get a house behind me on the test...

I kinda wanna order the 4k one now, its so cheap its like the price of a decent sized redmag lol! But I been eyeing some used mustangs instead...Maybe I can just talk them into letting me borrow one for a shoot out, I honestly would really wanna check it out before marrying the proverbial cow anyway
 
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