Help Choosing which OLPF!

[A. Clint Litton]

You actually don't need to run IR filters with your NDs regardless of which OLPF you get. Your OLPF selection does not impact IR contamination whatsoever.

Is this true? I was previously under the impression that the STH was the better in terms of cutting IR. I suppose this is yet another example of how beneficial it is to test all these things for oneself.

 

[Jack Allred]

Is this true? I was previously under the impression that the STH was the better in terms of cutting IR. I suppose this is yet another example of how beneficial it is to test all these things for oneself.

I haven't tested myself. That's my understanding though - that you won't see IR regardless; there might be some clinical amount of IR change, but not anything visible. There's a comparison somewhere on this forum I'd bet...

 

[Niko Pueringer]

Lemme chime in here ....

STH OLPF
STH OLPF
STH OLPF
STH OLPF
STH OLPF
STH OLPF
STH OLPF
STH OLPF
STH OLPF
STH OLPF

True, but consider this counterpoint:

LLO OLPF
LLO OLPF
LLO OLPF
LLO OLPF
LLO OLPF
LLO OLPF
LLO OLPF
LLO OLPF
LLO OLPF
LLO OLPF

(personally I'd recommend the LLO. I'd take a stop of sensitivity any day.)

 

[Jean Déraps]

I'm going to be working on a shoot on the weekend which will be night time with pyrotechnics (fireworks). I haven't been able to do any testing with the LLO OLPF yet and am wondering which OLFP would be best under these circumstances.
I'd appreciate your input!!!

 

[Tony Mac]

I'm going to be working on a shoot on the weekend which will be night time with pyrotechnics (fireworks). I haven't been able to do any testing with the LLO OLPF yet and am wondering which OLFP would be best under these circumstances.
I'd appreciate your input!!!

LLO for sure. There's noticeably less noise in the blacks.

 

[David Battistella]

I'm in the sth camp but have both.

in the end it's whether you want the extra room to push the highlights (more film like highlights) or dig the stop out of the blacks (sorta videoish blacks)

the DR of the sensor and the camera does not change, just the stops over and below middle grey.

The STH would match the look of the Alexa or 35mm film.

An an interesting thing on CMOS smear, as much as we think our DSLR's are perfect (my Nikon d700) had several shots with this "artifact" the other day, so it's not limited to dragon sensors.

 

[Björn Benckert]

You can not match an alexas lowlight with the standard olpf. Standard OLPF clips to rough noise far early in comparison. The highlights would also cover about a stop more. So if you try to match with alexa you need to not use the extremes of the spectrum for camera, with lowlight there is more room especially in the low end so the blacks looks quite similar and it has enough DR also in the higlight to match up with the alexa. Atleast according to my testings.

 

[Brant Hadfield]

Why would one not use the LLO "Low Light" OLPF and then add ND when needed in brighter situations, thus exposing for higher ISO values, in order to shift the DR toward highlight protection? Then when you shoot under lowlight, obviously shoot clean. Isn't that the best of both worlds, and essentially mimics what the so-called "Skin Tone" OLPF is doing to middle gray?

 

[Paul Duvilla]

Early upgraded dragons has a olpf system that is fixed. Could be old lowlight olpf or skinetone. Those cameras could be sent in and get the swappable system, free of charge. So you can not just grab a dragon and expect that you can swap the olpf on the spot as some does not have that option installed.

Yep, I just encountered this myself and will be sending mine in soon. It's nice that its a free upgrade though.

 

[Björn Benckert]

Why would one not use the LLO "Low Light" OLPF and then add ND when needed in brighter situations, thus exposing for higher ISO values, in order to shift the DR toward highlight protection? Then when you shoot under lowlight, obviously shoot clean. Isn't that the best of both worlds, and essentially mimics what the so-called "Skin Tone" OLPF is doing to middle gray?

One could argue that skintone render slightly more accurate colors. but sacrifice light to do so.
But Yes I agree with you if you only have one olpf I would go with LLOLPF. almost as good colors and lower bottom floor.

 

[David Battistella]

Maybe the LLO with a 1/8 digicon will give you a perfect match, I used to do this on MX constantly then with the STH I did not feel I had to do that anymore, but I did to a bit of light promist to disperse the blacks a bit, maybe that is why I did not have as much freakout with the STH as people seem to have been having.

LLO (workflow wise and exposure strategy wise) is probably more like MX (if you are used to that) but I am liking the STH a lot.

That doesn't mean I don't pop the LLO in there though

 

[Mark L. Pederson]

One could argue that skintone render slightly more accurate colors. but sacrifice light to do so.
But Yes I agree with you if you only have one olpf I would go with LLOLPF. almost as good colors and lower bottom floor.

100% disagree. I will post some images that show everyone why I feel the way I do after CineGear.

I'm kinda shocked that nobody has posted the extensive, hardcore comparison stuff. I think I have gotten spoiled over that past couple of years since Phil started posting so many great comparisons and charts - I kinda backed off posting that kind of stuff - but I'll start doing it again.

Again - the argument is mute because what everyone has is ... a CHOICE. But I have a hard time with a lot of comments that IMO are exaggerated, or misguided.

 

[David Battistella]

It's true, Phil is so thorough and the charts really do tell it all.

I shot a side by side available night test with the same lenses on each Dragon, but I never got around to posting it. The LLO performed as expected, but to me the STH is a big jump from MX when you start to break the image apart, but the LLO seems like an MX "upgrade" rather than a whole new camera sensor like the STH feels completely different.

 

[Nick Morrison]

100% disagree. I will post some images that show everyone why I feel the way I do after CineGear.

I'm kinda shocked that nobody has posted the extensive, hardcore comparison stuff. I think I have gotten spoiled over that past couple of years since Phil started posting so many great comparisons and charts - I kinda backed off posting that kind of stuff - but I'll start doing it again.

Again - the argument is mute because what everyone has is ... a CHOICE. But I have a hard time with a lot of comments that IMO are exaggerated, or misguided.

Mark i dont think anyone is doubting how great Skintone is! Thats not up for debate. The beauty of the Dragon platform is there's choices, which can be exploited....depending on your needs. Chris Probst's use of LLO on Bad Blood interiors (Skintone used on exteriors), and Dino's recent use of LLO on nightime Silverado commercial, are good examples of masterful RED projects that exploited LLO to its max...with great results.

Chris's reason for using LLO were "obvious" according to him: dark interiors with lots of slowmo.

Chris chose Skintone for exteriors, and it looks AMAZING.

I agree, I think both can co-exist happily in this ecosystem, driven only by your creative needs!

 

[Mark L. Pederson]

I think both can co-exist happily in this ecosystem, driven only by your creative needs...

100% - and I DO like the LLO for some stuff - again, I just get cranky about "broad" statements that lead to mis-information and exaggeration. A major series in NYC switched from Dragon to F55 at the last minute over "great concern about having to constantly switch OLPFs" fueled by several DITs arguing about it at PV. So OLPF FUD is very real - and it drives me NUTS.

I think I can post some very specific examples of why you should ALWAYS go for STO first - and only go LLO if you have no other choice. I'll do this right after CineGear - since the question keeps coming up over and over.

But if people are thinking they can't shoot STO in low light - they need some serious Reducating. And there is MORE going on than just sensitivity, OLPF flare and color.

I'm for options - and I'd like to see even MORE OLPFs - I just want folks to understand all the pros and cons about each one - instead of taking the name that RED chose to mean more than it should.