Peter Majtan
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Hey guys!
I have had the pleasure to work with all the RED cameras from the all mighty RED ONE (that is still producing amazing imagery around the world after 10 years!) all the way to the newest Helium Stormtroopers. Based on real-world experience working with clients large and small - I want to share few points you should consider before settling on your camera - especially if you really can only have one...
IMHO - there are two key differences between Helium and Dragon - pixel size and dynamic range. The most obvious is the pixel size. How does that affect us? Let's have a look at the following table...:
Resolution relates directly to the pixel size of these two sensors technologies and therefore the resolution will directly dictate the physical size of the sensor that you are exposing = crop factor. I hate to use the term "crop factor" as it is relative. Crop from what? Folks coming from stills or "5D video" world use as their reference FF (Full Frame) - which refers to 35 mm film as it passes the camera gate horizontally (so the 35mm width relates to the height of the image). Whereby folks coming from the cinema world use S35 as reference - which refers to 35 mm film as it passes the camera gate vertically (so the 35 mm width relates to the width of the image). Let's ignore this term for a moment and focus instead on what it means to us. And the biggest impact of the resolution is on our lens selection. Given that we are talking about filmmaking - I am using as a reference S35 format - which relates to our ability to use cinema lenses. And right of the bat you can see the problem. You can see that Helium will crop your cinema lenses at all but the 8K resolutions. Dragon's sweet spot for cinema lenses is around 5K...
Everyone works differently - but I, as a cinematographer that has "fully migrated" to the RED's digital ecosystem, have stopped using lens focal length to frame my shots. I have now "re-programmed" my brain to think how FoV (angular field of view = my frame) relates to the resolution. The bottom part of the table shows you how the two sensors relate at the various resolution settings. Starting from the smallest size (4K on Helium) I have set the reference as 12mm lens exposing at f/2.0 - the other fields will show you what lens (and exposure) you will need to cover the same exact scene (FoV) and light conditions. And this - IMHO - is the most important way the resolution affect our work by dictating (and in most cases limiting) our lens choices...
Another - commonly underestimated - way resolution affects our work is the size of the data we create. Future-proofing is one (important) thing, but you can't go against your client requests. You simply can't force 8K onto client who wants quick turn-around for HD delivery. The DSMC2 somewhat mitigates this by allowing us to simultaneously record lower-res proxies - but the proxies take away what IMHO is the core strength of RED imagery - the RAW R3D format. You then also need to think about the amount of media on location and data storage you will need. If you are filming 3-5 min video to be used on their website in HD (at the most) - handing over the client 6TB of data will earn you few WTF moments...
Great real-world example I want to share is one of my regular clients - NISSAN.
For a very long time we have used our old and trusted Scarlet X filming in 4K as primary camera and adding Epic X at 4K (to keep the same lens choices) for high-speed shoots - given that the client was always finishing in HD and we are not involved in the actual postproduction.
Switching over to Dragon - and in particular DSMC2 - the amount of data increased accordingly (for the same lens and FoV we needed to use higher resolution). Before the Raven came - we used the Weapon 6K and the client immediately start complaining about 2 things - data size and the need to crop the framing to go high-speed. Everything went back to "normal" as soon as we have received our Ravens. Not only it brought the data size under control - but more importantly - we do not have to change lenses if the client wants the same shot in high speed, as the Raven is capable of 120 fps at its full frame coverage of 4.5K. Nissan now insists to only shoot with the Ravens and we stopped to use the Weapon. I am sure we could come up with tons of reasons trying to justify the Weapon - but the reality is that the client does not care...
The Helium is an amazing camera - I can't prize it enough. And it will only get better with the proper Helium color science. But before you chose to go this path - please make sure you consider the work you will be doing 80% of the time to pay off your investment. Also consider the lenses you own, or are renting on regular basis. "FF" still glass is going to be cropped even at the full 8K resolution - which will generate massive amounts of data. You can reduce the data - but you will severely affect your lens choices. Real world and the clients will smack you hard into reality...
In terms of the dynamic range - I think it is still too early to discuss. We really need to wait for the proper Helium color science to even start evaluating the potential of this new sensor - and it will only get better from them on, as we have witnessed on all the previous sensor generations. As of now from my personal experience the DR is very similar (which is really impressive for the Helium given its smaller pixel photosites), but the distribution is very different. The Helium is more sensitive in shadows, but it is easier to clip in the highlights. This could be also related to the OLPF - which as far as I understand is for now optimised for Dragon. And we have seen what the different OLPF can do to Dragon sensor. I think the Helium will start really shining once there is a custom Helium OLPF and the new Helium color science to tag along. In any case - something you should also consider...
The Helium is amazing. But so is Dragon in DSMC2. Think really hard about how do you make living - especially if you can only have one camera. You can always rent for the other 20% of jobs...
I know many will disagree - but IMHO 80% of the members here (especially folks working on independent productions and commercial jobs) will be best served with the Raven when you are generating income with only one camera and your clients do not ask for 4K master (this is not to say Raven can not deliver beautiful 4K). Extremely affordable, manageable data, consistent framing all the way up to 120 fps and all the beauty of Dragon in DSMC2. These are the qualities 80% of clients care about. For the folks working on professional sets with cinema lenses most of the time - the Weapon Dragon is a way to go...
Scarlet W is for folks working on (mostly their own) projects, who want (or have) to use various lens types (need to change lens mount) and/or for folks who regularly need to deliver 4K master (which I honestly believe is still less then 20% of folks here) and the Weapon Dragon is simply out of your range. The 8K Helium (both Epic-W and Weapon 8K Helium), as well as the Dragon 8K (Vista Vision) are amazing cameras - but you really need to consider your individual situation and the jobs you do 80% of the time - if this is going to be your only camera...
Sure - you can just use 4K ProRes out of the 8K Helium - which is going to be stunning. But don't think the 4K PreRes data (especially in the minimum 422HQ spec need for use as source, never mind 444) is less then the 8K RAW. Both of these formats are extremely "heavy". The 8K RAW will give you the flexibility in post, but you will need some mean processing power - while the 4K ProRes can be managed even on an iMac, but you loose the RAW flexibility. Of course you can record both - but the data sizes then go thorough the roof...
Again - there are zillions of other things to consider and I am not saying one camera is better then the other. I just want you to take a deep breath and really consider what is it that you really need. Also all the above is juts my personal point of view that I wanted to share based on my personal experience...
:sifone: Peter
I have had the pleasure to work with all the RED cameras from the all mighty RED ONE (that is still producing amazing imagery around the world after 10 years!) all the way to the newest Helium Stormtroopers. Based on real-world experience working with clients large and small - I want to share few points you should consider before settling on your camera - especially if you really can only have one...
IMHO - there are two key differences between Helium and Dragon - pixel size and dynamic range. The most obvious is the pixel size. How does that affect us? Let's have a look at the following table...:
Resolution relates directly to the pixel size of these two sensors technologies and therefore the resolution will directly dictate the physical size of the sensor that you are exposing = crop factor. I hate to use the term "crop factor" as it is relative. Crop from what? Folks coming from stills or "5D video" world use as their reference FF (Full Frame) - which refers to 35 mm film as it passes the camera gate horizontally (so the 35mm width relates to the height of the image). Whereby folks coming from the cinema world use S35 as reference - which refers to 35 mm film as it passes the camera gate vertically (so the 35 mm width relates to the width of the image). Let's ignore this term for a moment and focus instead on what it means to us. And the biggest impact of the resolution is on our lens selection. Given that we are talking about filmmaking - I am using as a reference S35 format - which relates to our ability to use cinema lenses. And right of the bat you can see the problem. You can see that Helium will crop your cinema lenses at all but the 8K resolutions. Dragon's sweet spot for cinema lenses is around 5K...
Everyone works differently - but I, as a cinematographer that has "fully migrated" to the RED's digital ecosystem, have stopped using lens focal length to frame my shots. I have now "re-programmed" my brain to think how FoV (angular field of view = my frame) relates to the resolution. The bottom part of the table shows you how the two sensors relate at the various resolution settings. Starting from the smallest size (4K on Helium) I have set the reference as 12mm lens exposing at f/2.0 - the other fields will show you what lens (and exposure) you will need to cover the same exact scene (FoV) and light conditions. And this - IMHO - is the most important way the resolution affect our work by dictating (and in most cases limiting) our lens choices...
Another - commonly underestimated - way resolution affects our work is the size of the data we create. Future-proofing is one (important) thing, but you can't go against your client requests. You simply can't force 8K onto client who wants quick turn-around for HD delivery. The DSMC2 somewhat mitigates this by allowing us to simultaneously record lower-res proxies - but the proxies take away what IMHO is the core strength of RED imagery - the RAW R3D format. You then also need to think about the amount of media on location and data storage you will need. If you are filming 3-5 min video to be used on their website in HD (at the most) - handing over the client 6TB of data will earn you few WTF moments...
Great real-world example I want to share is one of my regular clients - NISSAN.
For a very long time we have used our old and trusted Scarlet X filming in 4K as primary camera and adding Epic X at 4K (to keep the same lens choices) for high-speed shoots - given that the client was always finishing in HD and we are not involved in the actual postproduction.
Switching over to Dragon - and in particular DSMC2 - the amount of data increased accordingly (for the same lens and FoV we needed to use higher resolution). Before the Raven came - we used the Weapon 6K and the client immediately start complaining about 2 things - data size and the need to crop the framing to go high-speed. Everything went back to "normal" as soon as we have received our Ravens. Not only it brought the data size under control - but more importantly - we do not have to change lenses if the client wants the same shot in high speed, as the Raven is capable of 120 fps at its full frame coverage of 4.5K. Nissan now insists to only shoot with the Ravens and we stopped to use the Weapon. I am sure we could come up with tons of reasons trying to justify the Weapon - but the reality is that the client does not care...
The Helium is an amazing camera - I can't prize it enough. And it will only get better with the proper Helium color science. But before you chose to go this path - please make sure you consider the work you will be doing 80% of the time to pay off your investment. Also consider the lenses you own, or are renting on regular basis. "FF" still glass is going to be cropped even at the full 8K resolution - which will generate massive amounts of data. You can reduce the data - but you will severely affect your lens choices. Real world and the clients will smack you hard into reality...
In terms of the dynamic range - I think it is still too early to discuss. We really need to wait for the proper Helium color science to even start evaluating the potential of this new sensor - and it will only get better from them on, as we have witnessed on all the previous sensor generations. As of now from my personal experience the DR is very similar (which is really impressive for the Helium given its smaller pixel photosites), but the distribution is very different. The Helium is more sensitive in shadows, but it is easier to clip in the highlights. This could be also related to the OLPF - which as far as I understand is for now optimised for Dragon. And we have seen what the different OLPF can do to Dragon sensor. I think the Helium will start really shining once there is a custom Helium OLPF and the new Helium color science to tag along. In any case - something you should also consider...
The Helium is amazing. But so is Dragon in DSMC2. Think really hard about how do you make living - especially if you can only have one camera. You can always rent for the other 20% of jobs...
I know many will disagree - but IMHO 80% of the members here (especially folks working on independent productions and commercial jobs) will be best served with the Raven when you are generating income with only one camera and your clients do not ask for 4K master (this is not to say Raven can not deliver beautiful 4K). Extremely affordable, manageable data, consistent framing all the way up to 120 fps and all the beauty of Dragon in DSMC2. These are the qualities 80% of clients care about. For the folks working on professional sets with cinema lenses most of the time - the Weapon Dragon is a way to go...
Scarlet W is for folks working on (mostly their own) projects, who want (or have) to use various lens types (need to change lens mount) and/or for folks who regularly need to deliver 4K master (which I honestly believe is still less then 20% of folks here) and the Weapon Dragon is simply out of your range. The 8K Helium (both Epic-W and Weapon 8K Helium), as well as the Dragon 8K (Vista Vision) are amazing cameras - but you really need to consider your individual situation and the jobs you do 80% of the time - if this is going to be your only camera...
Sure - you can just use 4K ProRes out of the 8K Helium - which is going to be stunning. But don't think the 4K PreRes data (especially in the minimum 422HQ spec need for use as source, never mind 444) is less then the 8K RAW. Both of these formats are extremely "heavy". The 8K RAW will give you the flexibility in post, but you will need some mean processing power - while the 4K ProRes can be managed even on an iMac, but you loose the RAW flexibility. Of course you can record both - but the data sizes then go thorough the roof...
Again - there are zillions of other things to consider and I am not saying one camera is better then the other. I just want you to take a deep breath and really consider what is it that you really need. Also all the above is juts my personal point of view that I wanted to share based on my personal experience...
:sifone: Peter
