Helios 44-2 58mm Matching Wide Lens?

[BrendanLeahy]

I currently have the 58mm and 38mm from DSO (base lenses used in Richard's TRUMP lenses are the Helios 44-2 lenses).

I've been itching for something that matches this look as closely as possible, but goes much wider - ideally, around a 20mm or so, that comes in (or can be converted to) PL or EF mount.

Any recommendations?

 

[Dan Kanes]

Mir-47 20mm f2.5 might be halfway decent. Don't know how hard (or easy) this would be to convert to PL mount, but definitely easy to put into an EF mount.

I don't know if it will "match" DSO style without some DSO mods though! depends on how modded yours is.

 

[Nick Morrison]

Matching how? In bokeh? Or flares?

 

[Nick Gardner]

Best bet is a zeiss jenna 20mm 2.8 flecktogon. Shouldn't be too hard to convert to PL. There is also the Mir 37mm, but that's not that wide. There is the mir-20, which will match the look pretty well, but it's just a copy of the flektogon.

I've been working on doing rehousing of the jupiter-9 85mm, the helios 58mm, the mir-37 and the 20. Here's the 37mm

Nick

 

[BrendanLeahy]

Matching how? In bokeh? Or flares?

I suppose overall a lens that will match both, although if I have to pick one or the other, I'd certainly value bokeh. I'd also like to keep contrast about the same as well!

 

[Dan Kanes]

Nick G - that looks rad !

heres some stuff about the Mir-47

https://www.flickr.com/photos/kuuan/sets/72157620334141135/comments/?rb=1

 

[Nick Gardner]

The Mir 27 is a great lens. they don't make them anymore, and they didn't make that many of them. They are really hard to get ahold of.

Nick

 

[Mike Quill]

Nick, is that a typo (Mir 27)?

Well, this thread, along with talking to Nick, got me all excited about building a Russian still lens set. My latest purchases:
Mir-47M 2.5/20mm
Mir-1A 2.8/37mm
Jupiter-9 2/85 M42

The Mir 27 is a great lens. they don't make them anymore, and they didn't make that many of them. They are really hard to get ahold of.

Nick

 

[Richie Allen]

DSO has talked of making a wider lens in the future in the 24 or 28mm range, but they (he) are deep into making an anamorphic right now. Everything comes to he who waits.

 

[BrendanLeahy]

DSO has talked of making a wider lens in the future in the 24 or 28mm range, but they (he) are deep into making an anamorphic right now. Everything comes to he who waits.

I commend Richard at DSO for his work thus far, and know he's keeping busy creating some amazing lenses.

That being said, I've also been waiting on TRUMP88 that I was told was ready to ship off to me in June of 2015, but can't seem to get ahold of him via Facebook or email.

Hopefully, you can understand that while I look forward to his future work and will definitely continue building my DSO set, I'd also like to find a lens to fill that void until then.

 

[Richie Allen]

yes, i waited a long time too. so i know what you mean. taking an older cheap leans like and Olympus OM 24mm F2 and removing the coatings from the front element will give you a low contrast looks and ding at the sharpeness to give you something in the ball park.

 

[Malik Tigrine]

Hi,

Do you know if I can adapt the Helios 44 58/2 M39 (and not M42 mount) to EF, without infinity focus issue ?

Best regards,

 

[Mathias Erichsen]

I think Mir 20mm f2.5 is pretty close.

PS: I allso think it looks closer to an 18mm FOV... (compared to sigma 18-35 art)

Here are two pics from Helios 44-2 58mm and Mir 20mm f2.5 from the same distance:

 

[Mathias Erichsen]

FOV comparison Mir 20mm f2.5 @ f3.5 and Sigma 18-35 Art @ 18mm f3.4

 

[Lee Kelly]

I too have a DSO (two actually) FF58s and I also have the 38mm wide angle for it and decided to gather a few older russian lenses in m42 mount to compliment the DSO.
Went for;

Mir 20mm f2.5
Mir 37mm f2.8
(58mm dso)
Jupiter 9 85mm f2
Tair 135mm f2.8

I think that is a pretty comprehensive little setup for some funky vintage options with lots of optical flaws and all that jazz.
Be cool to find out who might be able to screw (or replace mount) and PL onto these...

 

[Björn Benckert]

This is what Richard says about the Mir and Jupiter...


Just pasted email from February.

From: bjorn at syndicate.se

> Not possible to add>
>
> Jupiter 85mm and mir 37mm to the Trump set. Make a wide and tele adapter for them so they land outside the FOV of the helios trumps.
>
> Then also add a tair 135m to the set and it would be… almost complete, possible ?
>
> Best regards,
> björn
>

Reply From Richard:

Hi Bjorn.

Nice to hear from you mate. Hope all is well.

Unfortunately though the jupiter 85/2 and the mir 1b 37mm are from the same plant as the helios 44, they don't quite measure up to the optical capabilities of the biotar 58mm mated with the wa (the TRUMP38) and tele (TRUMP88) attachments. Being the double gauss design it is definitely the most pleasing design for overall defocus, image quality, resolution, and colour correction, and in combination with the highly corrected attachment optics the result is far beyond what the jupiter and mir 1b can deliver. The jupiter has a slight advantage in resolution over the 88mm trump, but the overall look of the 88 i think outdoes it. also, the aperture system wont work with sonnar or distagon type lenses as the mir and jupiter are.

I've actually just put in place the optimisation process of my TRUMP28/2 design to complete the trump lens set on the wide end for full frame/8k red use. It's likely a variant (a TRUMP24/2) will be made for s35mm only use (since 28mm only really provides the width when used on big boy sensors). in order to get a 24mm/2 to work on 8k vista vision format will result in over 20% distortion if the lens is to be kept within reasonable size constraints.

keep your ears to the ground re. the 28mm and ofcourse 'OLIVIA SCOPE' - should start getting exciting very soon

R

 

[Lee Kelly]

You got a reply...

Buy a lottery ticket!!!

 

[Bill Stengel]

I ordered a set of trumps the other day and enquired about the 28. Richard said the 28 should "be ready later this summer." Granted, his process limits his output, so take that with a grain of salt.
Either way, I can't wait to get my set.

 

[Lee Kelly]

Ok,

Kind of reading between the lines a little with what Richard said, keeping in mind he is really only talking about rehousing/redesigning the lenses to hit his 'trump' housing.
I am not sure he was saying that these lenses are no good, just no good for him to add his housing.
Its funny, you can google reviews and some will be glowing while others will be hating.
For our purposes i guess it would be cool for someone who shoots with these lenses on Red would offer their opinion, though most people who have put a particular lens kit together are always going to say nice things and might not be completely unbiased review.
Personally I think almost any old glass will take the edge off the digital sensor and although you might not use these for a corporate video or something very sterile, for a music clip or similar where you want to be a little more creative with the look and bake that in, these guys will be fun. Also some have de-clicked iris and nice long focus throw so great for cine use.
Mine will arrive shortly and I am looking forward to playing around. I am not even that concerned with the quality as the worse might be better if you know what I mean...

Oh and I have the DSO 58 and WA adapter so can do a side by side comparison and let you know if the mir 37 holds up.

 

[Björn Benckert]

Ok,

Kind of reading between the lines a little with what Richard said, keeping in mind he is really only talking about rehousing/redesigning the lenses to hit his 'trump' housing.
I am not sure he was saying that these lenses are no good, just no good for him to add his housing.
Its funny, you can google reviews and some will be glowing while others will be hating.
For our purposes i guess it would be cool for someone who shoots with these lenses on Red would offer their opinion, though most people who have put a particular lens kit together are always going to say nice things and might not be completely unbiased review.
Personally I think almost any old glass will take the edge off the digital sensor and although you might not use these for a corporate video or something very sterile, for a music clip or similar where you want to be a little more creative with the look and bake that in, these guys will be fun. Also some have de-clicked iris and nice long focus throw so great for cine use.
Mine will arrive shortly and I am looking forward to playing around. I am not even that concerned with the quality as the worse might be better if you know what I mean...

Oh and I have the DSO 58 and WA adapter so can do a side by side comparison and let you know if the mir 37 holds up.

To me the helios 58 is not just an old lens. Put it up against anything and you will see that it preforms better than most in terms of sharpens and so on. But still it has those old coatings, same style as lomo, hawk and other russian old lenses. So as I understand the lenses I suggested to him to rehouse was not really of the same caliber and also would not work to rehouse in such way that the back element could be detached... So they could not be "trumped" But if you read about those lenses the reviews are quite different from the helios. So I think even if it will take a bit of time I´m pretty confident that Richard is on the right path with what his doing. From just talking to him a few times I realised I know jack shit about lenses, he on the other hand knows more than most. So if he get together a twenty something mm and keep boing to make the spectrum of vocals wider I´m sure these lenses will rent like hot cakes when people start realise how godo they actually are.