Heli Shooting with Scarlet

[Marcos Luger]

Dear Redusers,

on the following days I will be shooting from an helicopter (MD-520N) with my Scarlet, no fancy gyro systems over here in Venezuela, so it will be just me with some sort of rig trying to keep the camera steady, the door from the heli will be removed.

The question is, I have been reading a lot of threads about this matter, and most people seem to be shooting with Epics, 5K @ 48 fps. So I was wondering what would be the best on Scarlet, 3k @ 48 fps, or 4k @ 30 fps (with 23.98 timebase). My final video will be at 1080.

I will be using a Tokina 11-16. Of course I do not expect to get shots like in "The Art of Flight", but I will be happy with some 3-4 seconds shots over our capital city.

Any advice will be very appreciate. Cheeers, Marcos

 

[Eric M Hurt]

Safety first, rig everything correctly and safely, with lines attached to the camera. Anything loose that flies out of the heli can go into the tail rotor and send ya down.
Much of getting successful heli footage has to do with the pilot and conditions. A good pilot helps a lot, and if the wind is up at all it may make it pretty difficult for him (or her) to fly straight enough for filming. Hopefully it's a larger heli as the smaller ones are more difficult as well. I have found that pilots tend to be pretty laid back (which is rather strange) so ask lots of questions and get answers. Let him know what you're after ahead of time since it ain't cheap to be up there and not super easy to communicate, he may also have some idea on the best way to get the angle.
I avoid a matte box since I'm usually shooting down and the box picks up a lot of the wash from the propellers. I tape on an ND or pola.
If you don't have a gyro system you can get a length of bungee cord and work up a rig across the door to help stabilize the camera.
That 11 to 16 is pretty wide, but if you're just getting super wide shots of the city then it would be okay, it may just be hard not to catch parts of the heli unless you're shooting directly out of the side of the heli.
Have fun!

 

[Sergio Perez]

My advice would be to shoot the biggest frame (4k) possible for post stabilization. what is this aerial footage going to be for? Broadcast? Make sure they are not requesting a 50 or 60i/p look!

 

[Eric M Hurt]

If they can work with 48FPS then that's a good choice. If you have time and the conditions are good you can shoot some 24FPS (or whatever your base frame rate it) which will give the director a normal option.

 

[Marcos Luger]

Thanks for the advices !

I will be flying an MD-520N, which lacks of tail rotor, hopefully it means less vibration. The footage is for a music video (am also directing) and will air on the web. I am not looking for any particular speed, I just want to make it the most stable as possible, therefore my doubts between 48 or 30 fps, both with 23.98 time base.

Flying over Caracas is very restricted, so I only have 30 mins. of flight, I will bring two Scarlets on board, one on the right side, and one the left.

Thanks once again !

 

[Jon Carr]

When I shoot helicopter footage with my scarlet hand held I do t8 at 30fps at 4k with a 1/96 shutter speed. Always shoot a little wider then you want for stabling in post. I usually shoot 10% wider but it depends on your hand held ability and the size of the helicopter. Also Dress warm.

 

[Marcos Luger]

Regarding the Bungee cord rig, should it be in the shape of an "X" with the camera at the intersection of both lines ? or just "V" shape ? I have been looking for pictures on the web but found nothing.

Thanks again for all the help !

 

[Shane Kelly]

Regarding the Bungee cord rig, should it be in the shape of an "X" with the camera at the intersection of both lines ? or just "V" shape ? I have been looking for pictures on the web but found nothing.

Thanks again for all the help !

You probably haven't found any photos because it's illegal ( in the US as least ) to attach anything to an airframe. I have isolated a camera by just using a rubber ( the black ones ) bungee cord straight down and attached to my top handle. I'm not recommending this for a helicopter as it is potentially life threatening but has worked for many other modes of transportation.

 

[Larry Kelly]

first, safety. Some helicopters only have a 3 point belt. If that's the case try to use a harness and anchor it somewhere safe as a backup. If you are stuck with the car style belt, take some electrical tape and tape the lever down so it can't be accidentally lifted. Then rehearse the radio comm. with the door off it may be too noisy to use vox so the pilot will need to tell you how to activate your mic. Usually a foot switch. Bungie hung from the top of the door opening will help you both keep stable and keep some of the weight off your arms. I use a heavy weight surgical tubing instead of bungi cord because I trust it more and it's more responsive. Make sure you tether the camera to your body as well. You often cannot have spare lens sitting on standby to change in flight so thorally test your system and framing before the rotors start spinning. Have fun and don't eat burretos just before you fly.

 

[Michael Brennan]

Search this site for numerous threads on shooting from an open door.

Bungie hung from the top of the door opening will help you both keep stable and keep some of the weight off your arms. I use a heavy weight surgical tubing instead of bungi cord because I trust it more and it's more responsive. Make sure you tether the camera to your body as well.

If you don't have a gyro system you can get a length of bungee cord and work up a rig across the door to help stabilize the camera.

Doing the above may compromise your insurance, saftey and the saftey of the aircraft. Just because the pilot may agree to it does not mean it is legal or safe!

Outside of war zones, shooting from an open door in a helicopter claims the lives of more cameramen than any other activity.
For numerous reasons shooting with a nose mounted stabilised gimbal is the safest form of aerial filming by an immense margin.

Another aerial filming accident a few weeks ago in Perth Australia. Low and slow and shooting from an open door. Lady luck was on the side of the cameraman who was flung outside the door.
Whilst the pilot was in fireproof clothing and helmet the cameraman was without a bone dome and was wearing just a T shirt.

To generalise, many helicopters used for low budget filming don't hover once they get above 30 feet. They have to fly forwards to stay up.
In such craft, asking the pilot to go lower and slower puts you very close to the edge.

If you avoid flying low and slow, flying at night or in poor visibility you'll avoid these most risky of environments.
Add good planning and sound cockpit resource management together with not "moving the goalposts" mid flight and lastly, choosing a company that has a saftey pilot or senior pilot to oversee your flight and you will have eliminated the most common causes of aerial filming crashes.
The production team, producer, director and cameraman do have input or control of these factors but most don't understand the saftey implications.

The pilot who crashed into the crane in London was the finest of aviators (who also shot aerials), the Australian Broadcasting pilot who took off after last light was regarded as a top gun and other experienced pilots who have perished in the last 18 months all ran out of luck... there was a common factor of significant pressure to get the job done.

Regardless of your experience as an aerial camerman don't underestimate the pressure and challenges that an aerial filming job can exert on a pilot.




Mickjoebill

 

[Russ Fill]

Think about stepping on to the skid to take out as much of the helicopter bump and vibration. Use a climbing harness or window washers harness with shoulder and leg straps. Make sure you use a good hard point in the helicopter not the seatbelts as they are loaded for forward pulls not you hanging out the door on the skids.Use as high a frame rate as you feel comfortable. Depends on the smoothness of the ride that day and pilot. Maybe even 60fps at 180 or even 90 degree shutter they can always speed it up in post.I have had a lot of good luck using After Effects Warp stabilizer. With wide shots and the added crop factor along with faster shutter and frame rate you can almost make it look Cineflex like.Good luck and don't fall out. Oh secure the camera to you as well so if you drop it you can just grab it and keep working not watch it wrap in the tail rotor and spin you out of control.Dont be in a hurry, take your time and maybe even fly by once and let the pilot see where you want to be and how the helicopter moves through the area your about to step out on the skid with no hands and work, and communication with the pilot where you need him to put you is probably the most important part of the deal. You are only about a 3rd of good aerials. I know hard to hear but the pilot and your relationship is the most critical along with great smooth air. Work in the morning... Better light and less wind which equals bumps which equals shaky photos.ME New Zeland aerials.jpgGood luck.

 

[Michael Brennan]

[QUOTE]Think about stepping on to the skid to take out as much of the helicopter bump and vibration.

Standing on the skid puts your entire body into the slipstream and if all your weight is on your feet it is very hard to counter the twisting force if a pilot turns quickly.
Sitting on the floor and resting your feet on the step will give you more angle of view and a seat. Even in this position wind noise on the mic will be a problem unless you lean back.

Use a climbing harness or window washers harness with shoulder and leg straps.

Use of a non approved harness is illegal in many countries.
At least 4 aerial cameramen have drowned (probably more than have been killed doing underwater shoots!) by home made harnesses. These were accidents where all others onboard survived but these poor sods were trapped.
If you must move from the passenger seat use an approved harness that has a release mechanism at the front. If you use a climbing harness you'll have to attach the lanyard to the back of the harness, kind of hard to get to in an emergency.

Make sure you use a good hard point in the helicopter not the seat belts as they are loaded for forward pulls not you hanging out the door on the skids.

Get the liscenced engineer at the heli company to give you advice on this.
Even some pilots do not realise that the D rings on the floor of AS350s are not designed to secure passengers.
The seatbelt points are the best points but use two of them to spread the load.

Oh secure the camera to you as well so if you drop it you can just grab it and keep working not watch it wrap in the tail rotor and spin you out of control.

If you secure the camera to you it is something else that will inhibit your egress. Attach it to the airframe separately.


There has been two "doors off" filming accidents since this thread started, resulting in the deaths of a film pilot, cameraman and actor.

Here is a link to an accident report of a low and slow doors off filming accident where the cameraman survived. The jetranger ended up without skids with the cameraman outside of the cabin.
It is a good factual lesson how doors off filming restricts the ability to orbit in either direction, necessitates the need to be low to get closeups and requires the pilot to crab the aircraft to favour the camera, rather than the wind. A jet ranger with 4 on board and camera and sound recording kit didn't help. The Channel Ten Australia crash last week involved doors off, low and slow over hostile ground.

http://www.aaiu.ie/sites/default/files/upload/general/12835-REPORT_2004_021-0.PDF

Simple rules and advice
Advise against shooting from an open door unless absolutely unavoidable.
Ban home made bungy camera mounts and jury rigged body harnesses (usually illegal)
Avoid using a pilot who is an owner operator, at least without an independent pilot involved in the planning or management.
Dont use a R44 unless it has a fuel bladder (cell)
Let it be known that production can be found legally liable in the event of an accident, even if it appears to be a straightforward pilot error.
Remind crew that personal accident and mortgage insurances are invalid in the event of a charter accident.
Remind production that many light helicopters will fall out of the sky on a warm day or if heavily loaded unless they keep moving forward.
Consider that production managers who know little about aviation should not solely rely on a pilot or charter company for advice about best aircraft type for the job.
Don't fly at night over unlit terrain or over water without life vests or floats.





Mike Brennan

 

[Marcos Luger]

I am impressed by the amount of knowledge and advices one can get in this Forum, than you very much for all the tips and information. If the weather is ok, I will be flying this week, will post some results.


Thanks once again !

 

[Peter Majtan]

Michael (and others) have a lot of good points. Here is my take (and I have been filming from helicopters and other crafts for over 10 years now)...:

- Hard attachments to the airframe are the ones that require FAA approval. Think Tyler mount, Space-cam, etc... Bungee cords do not require FAA approval...

- Having said that - I do not use bungee cords to stabilize the camera. I use them to assist me with the weight. Fully kitted RED ONE with brute gyros (like in the pic below) weighs over 10kg, which on its own is not bad. But depending on your flight plan some turns can generate up to 4G's - which turns the camera kit to 40+ kg and that can be a problem. This is where the bungees come in handy. Bungees are also great at isolating the camera from the craft's vibrations (both low and high frequency ones)...

- I always wear a climbing harness attached to the respective support points (always at least two). The rope attaching the harness to the craft uses properly rated carabiners (http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en-us/shop/climb/carabiners/rocklock-carabiner) with secured quick-release on both ends. I guide them pass my hips and connect them to the main support loop at the front of the harness. Not only this is the strongest part of the harness - it is also easy to access in a emergency...

- The camera is always attached to the craft independently of me with rope length making sure it will never reach anywhere near the rotors when dropped (even in a upside-down scenario)...

- I always use brute gyros - there is no substitute. If You can not buy one - rent one. Contact Kenyon Gyros and they will put you in touch with someone who has them in your region. Rolling shutter is extrapolated by craft vibration and generates a jello distortion that is impossible to correct in post...

- Wear proper boots and tape the bottom of your pants to the boots with gaffer tape. I still remember the pain and bruises from my very first aerial filming 10 years ago caused by the flapping end of my pants...

- Also wear warm clothing and tip-less gloves with good grip - even on a hot summer day. Use goggles that attach to your head (such a ski goggles if you can not find something more appropriate)...

- Go to restroom just prior the shoot - even if you do not feel like it...

- Take DRAMAMINE. Don't be a macho. With your eyes focused on the POV of the camera and your body responding to the (unrelated) real-world horizon - it is super easy to succumb to motion sickness. I will not allow anyone with me on the helicopter (whether it is an assistant, director, or even the client!) without them having taken DRAMAMINE in time before the flight...

- Plan the flight-path with the pilot and allow for time it takes to reach the location and to return to the helipad...

I have been in a helicopter since 3-years old with my father and have been fortunate enough not to be involved in any accident. When I was shooting the Rally of Nations aerials for ESPN back in 2009 - there was an accident on the ground (a small rock propelled by a rally car has hit a child in the forehead and the kid had to be taken to a hospital ASAP) - upon landing I was able to "remove" myself and the camera from the heli in under 30 sec and made the space for the injured child...

Have a safe shoot!

Peter

EDIT: Do not use matte-box. Either use screw-in filters, or just a plain filter secured to the lens with sufficient amount of gaffer tape... ;o)
Speaking of which - secure every port and accessory on the camera with a gaffer tape (do not block the airflow), even the screw-in filters...

 

[Phil Holland]

Great advice Peter.

I think I spent the most time at Cinegear 2012 playing with the Tyler Brute. Really impressed by it.

 

[Peter Majtan]

Great advice Peter.

I think I spent the most time at Cinegear 2012 playing with the Tyler Brute. Really impressed by it.

Hi Phil! Just wait till you can get your hands on one of these...:

http://www.ken-lab.com/what-s-new/new-x-series-3-axis-gyros

The KS-8x8 kit is perfect for Epic/Scarlet and at $6880,- an absolute bargain if you plan on doing regular aerial work!
You can rent one for $400,- per week - I am yet to do any single job that requires me to fly for more then a week (the longest was the Rally of Nations at 5 days...)
And You can just screw it into the bottom of the camera - and secure with gaffer tape! ;o)
Even without any additional support gear if you just hand-held this basic setup - your results will improve 10-fold.
The best $400,- you will ever spend!

:sifone: Peter

 

[Phil Holland]

Hi Phil! Just wait till you can get your hands on one of these...:

That's on my list of things to check out in two months! I will definitely be purchasing a stabilizer primarily for vehicle and aerial use. The cost of that KS-8x8 is really nice actually. I'm a little worried that it only supports up to 22lbs, but that's within what I'm after with the glass I'll be using. A little worried if I get longer lenses up there.

We used two KS-8 units on a some metal rod configuration up in Vancouver about 4 years ago with a PV XL2 while I was on the skids. It was the first time I ever did that. Cryofreezed my future children right off.

I'll be looking closely at both the Tyler Brute and the Kenyon KS-8x8 soon. Might build or purchase something similar to the ATM base.

I really need to see how the KS-8x8 works "stacked" and if that 4th dimension thing works out that they have on the page. Really curious about run time off a single battery as well.

 

[Peter Majtan]

Phil, I have always built my own systems - based around Kenyon gyros. Not only I can design it for my specific camera and use, but it also is the most economical solution. And since you build it yourself - it is easy to maintain and fix...
When I first started to play around with stabilization I was forwarded this link:

http://www.rondexter.com/

Very old site - but incredible resource (and not just for stabilization). Hope You find is as useful as I did...

Cheers

Peter

PS: The Brute is just a custom rig built by Tyler that uses Kenyon gyros...

 

[Russ Fill]

Michael, I just want to thank you for correcting and clarifying a lot of what I said. After reading your info and going back to my info I realized that there were a lot of points I gave that need much more info to go with that point I was trying to give. My apologies.
While my intent was to help, some of the advice was specific to what works for me and my experience and knowledge base. There are hundreds if not thousands of other things to consider when shooting from a helicopter that can in no way be explained here on a forum. Not only hand held but using proper mounts, it is very difficult if not impossible to try to give suggestions and advice that only years of experience and working with helicopters and cameras together can give a person trying to shoot and work with Helicopters.
I was shaken by the recent crash that took 3 peoples lives near LA this last week. Considering I was doing the same thing only a few days before on probably a similar type of program.
I want to just stress the importance of safety and using proper gear and having a person that is qualified to setup and check the gear you may use when shooting hand held or even with a mount from a helicopter.

Just one thing to add and Michael you pointed it out very well. And I failed to include it in my info was the need to be able to quickly get out of your harness and gear. I always have with in quick reach and know how to unclip and get out of the gear Im using. I even have with in reach a webbing cutter if needed, I didn't mean to suggest to just bolt your self in and hope for the best.
Thank you for the corrections.

 

[Michael Brennan]

Hey Russ,

A gracious post, 'nuff said....

Whilst I may appear to be contrarian, my genuine concern is that due to easier access to 4k cameras, readily available, cheaper helicopters (such as R44) and the ability to extract a steady 2k image from 4k rushes in post, is that the incidences of hand held shooting will increase, in particular by inexperienced cameramen.

An experienced DP spoke to me today, he had a scare last year, they made a heavy landing in a remote area after an engine problem. Chopper was not flyable.
Fortunately they remained upright and were not over hostile terrain as they only had a few seconds to find a spot... he was very happy that he was tucked up inside and not hanging out the door as he did early in his career.

Of course it is a free world and adventure and thrill seeking can be a part of the attraction to this industry. However in most other industries in the Western world the thrills and spills are designed out of the production process, whereas in the media world producers (knowingly or not) exploit the willingness of cameramen and pilots to take risks. Problem is we dont often know what risks the pilot is taking..
I once did a shoot in weather so severe that it grounded a training exercise by the nearby twin engine two pilot crewed coastal rescue chopper on the West coast of Ireland!
When we landed one of the rescue pilots came over and suggested our pilot showed poor judgement. (or words to that effect!)


If you feel that a director wants to use the chopper as a theme park ride by all means, close the door, let the pilot have some fun and he will in a more safe way than trying to get the shot downwind at low level



all the best to all

Mike Brennan