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HDRx - Why no tutorials?

Adam Rook

Adam Rook

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I have been searching for quite some time and mainly all I can find on HDRx are examples. Even then there are only a hand full of samples. Is this an amazing feature or is it just too much hassle to use? I am very intrigued by it and I would love to know more about how it can be used effectively. I've read some comments here that some people just don't get good results from it. My own experience is my images just come out looking too dark.

I'm searching for the greatest minds on here (Luke Neumann) to ask if you all could be so kind to offer up any knowledge on the matter. Phil, your input would be valuable also.

Almost any time there is a request for R3Ds or to see more footage examples they seem to go largely ignored. Am I missing something? I would just love to see a solid tutorial, tips and tricks post from Red on it. Or from anyone on it. I can think of a million situations where I would use this but not if I can't get amazing footage from it.

Come on guys… LET'S DO THIS!!!!!!


… please :)
 
I can't argue with the idea of tutorials. Would love to see more myself. But, honestly, HDRx is pretty simple at the core; not much complexity. I think the challenge is just to use it enough to get comfortable with what works best in given situations; which circles back to having examples.
 
I'm looking more for those tricks that can be used. Something more than Magic Motion and Simple Blend. I reached out to Graeme about it once and he suggested tone mapping. I'd like to see someone expound on that and what works best. I'm mainly concerned with those few extra stops in the highlights. Some of the results Luke Neumann is getting are absolutely fantastic.
 
Adam Rook said:
I'm looking more for those tricks that can be used. Something more than Magic Motion and Simple Blend.
Click to expand...
I think the answer is that HDRx is problematic for scenes with a lot of motion, and in truth the camera has already got enough dynamic range that if you light the scene carefully, you can still capture everything you need to see and still have room to color-correct the results in post. A lot of the time in post we wind up restricting the dynamic range on the monitor, using power windows and other methods to control exposure in different parts of the screen at the same time. A lot hinges on making sure you avoid clipping the highlights while making sure you have sufficient fill for the darkest areas of the set, just controlling the key-to-fill ratio, which is pretty basic.

I seem to recall that Alexis Van Hurkman goes into HDRx in detail in the Resolve v11 manual, pages 702-706.
 
+1 power windows in post
 
Adam Rook said:
I have been searching for quite some time and mainly all I can find on HDRx are examples. Even then there are only a hand full of samples. Is this an amazing feature or is it just too much hassle to use? I am very intrigued by it and I would love to know more about how it can be used effectively. I've read some comments here that some people just don't get good results from it. My own experience is my images just come out looking too dark.

I'm searching for the greatest minds on here (Luke Neumann) to ask if you all could be so kind to offer up any knowledge on the matter. Phil, your input would be valuable also.

Almost any time there is a request for R3Ds or to see more footage examples they seem to go largely ignored. Am I missing something? I would just love to see a solid tutorial, tips and tricks post from Red on it. Or from anyone on it. I can think of a million situations where I would use this but not if I can't get amazing footage from it.

Come on guys… LET'S DO THIS!!!!!!
Click to expand...

In my book I go over the general basics over HDRx and discuss one of the ways I use it.

http://www.red.com/store/products/rules-of-engagement-bundle

I like using HDRx for nature and landscape timelapse work as it protects you from some of the more unpredictable lighting conditions that can occur over the longer duration of a shot like that.

If shooting at speed I generally try to keep HDRx in the range of 1-3 stops as the motion blur is still manageable. In extreme cases I'll split the tracks in After Effects and do a bit of a motion blur there if needed.

RED added a slick feature to the firmware a bit ago that really helps when exposing with HDRx. You can actually hot key to toggle which track you are previewing when HDRx is enabled which allows you to utilize the In Camera and On Screen Exposure Tools. Makes life super easy.
 
Thanks guys for the feedback. Phil, I can't wait to read your book! Thank you for your input as always.

The thing is, I know how HDRx works. I understand the concept and what it does. I guess, in my mind, I was hoping for more examples and best-practices on how to get the greatest blending results. I don't plan to use it in any extreme motion scenarios. I'm just really fascinated by it and want to see more.
Hoping for some generous R3D samples, too.

You guys are great!! Thanks everyone for chiming in.
 
So seriously do you find Simple Blend to be the better of the two blends in RCX? Can a good look be achieved in RCX or is DaVinci better for HDRx?
 
In my experience the best answer has already been given twice in this thread -- windows that treat the two streams separately. HDRx is a convenient way to get two streams that are exposed quite differently. In post you can then window in the streams as it makes sense. The classic example is the one Red themselves like to use -- shooting out of a garage into bright light. Window the garage opening and use the X stream there. I don't even use a blend, generally the window is all X. It helps a lot to know in advance what you are going to do in post, so that the animation of the window is kept simple during shooting. I really have only used HDRx for architectural shots myself.
 
I once used Photomatix, to get a really "grunge" image. I exported a tiff sequence out of RedCine-X, into Photomatix, it came out as a Tiff sequence and then dropped all of it in an FCP timeline. Never used it again, but it worked in a weird kind of way.
 
Thanks guys for the feedback. Med D do you have an HDRx workflow you would like to share? I guess the thing I'm asking in my original question is just that. Does anyone have a tutorial on how to do that very thing? Or a tutorial on some tricks you've used to gain the best results? I, for one, would love to see some architectural examples and how you would have overcome the dynamic range issues. I'm assuming you used it to control highlights in windows?
 
I don't have a tutorial. I can share some notes I made to myself but use them at your own risk! I found the process to be pretty time consuming and the final result was not that great for me, as as result I have not used it that often. The problem I had is that if the blown out area is at all complex in shape, the masking process is very challenging. I used After Effects though which may not be the best approach. Here are my notes:
  • Open R3D file twice in project window, import two copies to project.
  • Select one of them, go to File->Interpret footage->Main->More Options and select the x track. Same for a track.
  • Stack them up in comp window as a track, x track, a track
  • Select multiply and luna for x-track. This will use the luna content from the A track above
  • Use Color Balance (HLS) and Curves effects to make top A curve black and white. This is the mask. Use Gaussian Blur to clean up edges.
  • If needed, use masks on top A track in “Add” mode to select the areas to use for masking.
  • Rotobezier can draw curved shapes, keyframe to track if needed
  • Paint with white to get rid of mask if needed, or black to add to mask.
  • Viewing full comp should show X track only where needed.
  • Export in lossless for future us


This just creates a mask so the X track is visible in the blown out areas.

Here is a still that shows the good and bad of this approach. The good is that the outside area would normally be blown out. I think the X track was four stops down at least. I had to shoot in the daylight as I used only natural light for the interior. The bad is that the edges of the window can be seen very easily. I have not had any normal people notice this but image conscious people see it easily.

ozLfjHR.jpg
 
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