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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

HDR Dragon Filming

Ryan Sheets

Ryan Sheets

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Does anyone shoot architecture/design work in homes and use HDR for something like this?

Curious on best way to blend in Red Cine or Adobe Preimier...

Love to see some examples of what you were able to pull off as well.
 
Ryan Sheets said:
Does anyone shoot architecture/design work in homes and use HDR for something like this?
Click to expand...

I played around with this a little bit in my recording studio, which features lots of large north-facing windows. I played with it for some days but gave up for several reasons. The first, and perhaps biggest, was because it was too difficult for me to dial in good tone-mapping curves. I think that HDR frame blends in Photoshop and GIMP plugins are much more sophisticated than simple tone-mapping. The second problem is that even if I fixed the first problem, as soon as the camera goes into motion (on a dolly, say), the tone mapping curves need to change as the balance of high- and low-light levels changes. If the first problem was hard, the second is hard squared. The third problem is that HDR basically requires a doubling compression rates. While it's true that EPIC DRAGON + MINIMAG can hit 8:1 in HDR mode, SCARLET DRAGON cannot hang, and it made no sense to be shooting HDR with one camera and not another in a multi-cam situation.

I solved all my problems with $200 worth of LEE 1.2ND films across all the windows. This brought daylight into a range that looked natural and right from indoors. It also means that my lighting instruments all work as they should, because they don't have to do battle with the sun.

Moreover, the excellent DR of DRAGON without HDR gives me all the range I need.
 
Michael Tiemann said:
I solved all my problems with $200 worth of LEE 1.2ND films across all the windows.
Click to expand...

Was this on a roll or in sheets? How did you adhere it to the windows? Looking at solutions for doc interviews in an office environment.

Rhan Sheets said:
Hey Stacey, I am referring to filming with HDRx on the Dragon.
Click to expand...

Sorry Ryan, I don't use HDRx for the same reasons as Michael mentions. I tried it and I might actually use it for some Dolby Vision demo content in situations where the camera is static. For example, if I have an interior shot and a window to the outside and nothing overlaps between the two. In this scenario, it is easy enough to composite the X track window over the A track window.
 
I used a 4' x 25' roll. We found that glycerin, diluted, worked well as an adhesive. We wet the glass, put up the filter, and used a squeegee to remove all the air bubbles and leave a very thin film of liquid between the glass and the filter.
 
If there is motion blur applied to the X-track it will "mold" together better when combining them with the A-track. It's also better to have a slightly fast shutter overall, if there's too much motion blur on the A-track it will be very different to the X-track.
Shooting at say a 135 degree shutter with a 3 stop HDRx will produce more sharpness on both. Combining with some post motion blur you could get a slightly better result than just straight up "magic motion". It's important to understand that you won't get motion exactly as if it were shot normal, but you can reduce some of it's visability so that it doesn't "pop out" as it usually does.

I've used it in situations where you don't have time to block out windows and you actually need those windows as your main source of light. As long as there isn't pure action it will be ok even in motion.

Though I wonder if there could be a firmware update to bring the two tracks closer to eachother in time. Right now, from what I understand a timebase of 25fps is shot as HDRx in 50fps, but if it could be shot in a "varispeed" at 100fps instead, it would bring the different exposures closer together in time. Might be mathematically hard because you need the A-track to have time to expose the image, but if the shutter degree is 135 it might be possible, or maybe in at least 75fps.
 
Hate to come back to my question but does any one have examples of what they have been able to do with HDRx and how they achieved that?
 
Appreciate the share. Did you use Red Cine x with simple blend? Thanks!

Hoping to see some indoor footage with windows as well...
 
Oh sorry. It's not mine. Luke Neuman's film. There have been a couple threads on here about HDRX and his footage is by far the best I've seen. I've played around with HDRX footage myself and just can't seem to get decent results. The image always ends up looking too dark overall to me.
 
I posted that specifically for one shot. The one interior shot where the exposure both inside and the through the windows look perfect to me.
Other than that I really haven't seen any really good HDRx shots.
I'm in the same boat. Most of what I shoot is indoors with windows and I've resorted to using Full CTO .6 ND filters on the windows. Both to control exposure and color temp. I use the 48"x50' rolls from Rosco.
Thus my interest in HDRX. The filter works fine but it's a pain to install. I just use Gorilla tape to fix it to the facade and drape it over the entire window frame.
 
Can you tell me more about these rolls? I am not familiar with them...appreciate the insight!
 
Yeah... first a correction. The roll is 25' long not 50'. Sorry for that. B&H has them for $124.50 a roll.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/90625-REG/Rosco_102302084825_E_Colour_208_CT_Orange.html

I just cut them to about 7 1/2 ' lengths so I can cover the entire window frame on the exterior of a house or building. For me it's less time to do that than get the adhesive version and apply it to the window, squeegee the bubbles out, and trim it. Like I said I use Gorilla Tape to tape it to the facade. The only thing is it sucks trying to do that on a windy day, by yourself, but it's do-able.

I like them because I can both change the color temp of the daylight to match the tungsten sources in a house and knock down the exposure of the sun.
 
http://www.red.com/learn/red-101/hdrx-high-dynamic-range-video

Above is the red info on HDRx.

We used it quite a bit when shooting 360 VR stuff. But I has none of that material that I can show here, its under NDA. It was un lit interior stuff with bright daylight outside. We shot with the same 8mm lens in 4 directions with the same exposure settings in all directions so it would match in the stitch when creating the 360 panorama. This worked extremely well as we could blend in between -2 stops outside and normal exposure for indoor and we also had the option to gain / push down to even out for different lights in the interior. If we would have used filters on the windows in this production we would have problems as we needed the light coming in tough the windows to get good enough exposure on the interior.

We here of course on a tripod and the camera was static in the takes and the movement in the takes where people walking / moving around infront of a 8mm lens on about 3 meters distance so nothing was really fast moving / causing a lot of motion blur issues. So for such setup HDRx is a really good solution.
 
https://vimeo.com/137139912

Here is a quick and dirty test I did in my living room. The first set of windows don't have any filters on them. The second set, in my living room, do. No color correction. Straight from the camera with no adjustments. Notice the exposure and color temperature difference.
 
lol...that helps so much! You had a filter over the whole window on the outside for the one exposed correctly? Looks wonderful. It's a huge undertaking for what I am trying to do but might do just the trick. Will try to find a screen shot of the location to share.
 
Bjorn -- I just found this out & thought others might be interested. My interpretation may be wrong ....

If you select an A" shutter speed of 1/X, (with, say, 2 Stops of ND via HDRx) you'd expect to get 1/4X as the
"X" track shutter speed. This is indeed the case -- up to a point: with 1/72 (or actually 1/85.05) as the limit
displayed for the "A" track. It seems 1/340.2 (1/85.05 * 4) is the limit for the "X" track when the "A"
track is max'd at 1/85.05. BTW, 1/85.05 will be displayed in YELLOW.

My experience with 6.0.31 & Canon Ti + Epic Dragon.

Kinda makes sense as recording two tracks is requiring a great deal of "context switching" & competition for the shutter.

Anyone have different interpretation(s)/experience(s) ? [Thus, for example, HDRx with 3 Stops of ND and 1/96 shutter speed for "A" appears to be unavailable ...]

Tx,
Serge

Björn Benckert said:
http://www.red.com/learn/red-101/hdrx-high-dynamic-range-video

Above is the red info on HDRx.

We used it quite a bit when shooting 360 VR stuff. But I has none of that material that I can show here, its under NDA. It was un lit interior stuff with bright daylight outside. We shot with the same 8mm lens in 4 directions with the same exposure settings in all directions so it would match in the stitch when creating the 360 panorama. This worked extremely well as we could blend in between -2 stops outside and normal exposure for indoor and we also had the option to gain / push down to even out for different lights in the interior. If we would have used filters on the windows in this production we would have problems as we needed the light coming in tough the windows to get good enough exposure on the interior.

We here of course on a tripod and the camera was static in the takes and the movement in the takes where people walking / moving around infront of a 8mm lens on about 3 meters distance so nothing was really fast moving / causing a lot of motion blur issues. So for such setup HDRx is a really good solution.
Click to expand...
 
Adam, one last question...would you try to light enough and use rolls with the Low light or Skin Tone? Low light will really help me use less lights inside but will the skin tone help make the highlights look better?
 
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