HD wide screen resolution - help :)

[Karel Šimůnek]

Hi guys, I need your help with resolution

I want to have my next project in wide screen resolution 2.4:1. How do you shoot with RED for it? Do you have for example 5K HD resolution which is 4800x2700 and than you put it to timeline which is 3840x1600 (2.4:1) and cut out up and bottom or you shoot in 5K WS resolution and you cut out left and right sides of the screen?

Thank you for your help

 

[Aaron Lochert]

I would shoot 5K FF or 5K WS, so that you utilize the maximum width of your sensor. I'd only shoot 5K HD for a 16:9 project, and even then, I'd probably shoot 5K FF with guides for 16:9 cropping later.

For 2.4:1, shooting 5K FF will give you some room to adjust your composition vertically (headroom) in post. Shooting 5K WS will not give you that freedom (it won't give some pesky editor that freedom either), but it will save you data or you can forgo that saved data and instead shoot a lower compression ratio.

As far as what resolution you should make your project, that's really up to you. Where will this project be shown? Cinema, 4K BluRay, Web?

I'd personally probably go for a 4096 x 1716 project, export a master, then use that master to make whatever deliverables I needed. Or export deliverables from that project directly, but that takes a little extra care to make sure any random oddities don't happen with the various exports -- things that were supposed to be outside of the frame but suddenly show up again, etc. etc.

I'm more of a shooter than an editor though, so if someone has better advice, that's cool too.

 

[Karel Šimůnek]

Oooooo thank you so much for your help

It's for YouTube so it will be played on normal monitors so that's why I want to do 3840 horizontal resolution since 99% of monitors and TV's have 3840 horizontal

So I guess the best would be to shoot in normal full 5K resolution with 2.4:1 HD guidelines

 

[Patrick Tresch]

You mean 16/9 (1.77) guidelines?

 

[Karel Šimůnek]

No no. I mean 2,4:1 final resolution. When I choose 4K HD resolution on camera and than choose 2,4:1 guidelines than it says 3840x1600 in the lower left corner of the screen so that will be my final resolution in Final Cut. But my question is. Should I record in HD resolution 16:9 when 5K HD resolution fit perfectly horizontally and I just cut out top and bottom. Or should I record in WS mode and cut out left and right side because 4096x1716 isn’t 2,4:1

I hope it is understandable

I want my final resolution 3840 horizontally since it’s for youtube and vertically I guess 1600 pixels? I guess that DCI resolution is just wider right?

 

[Aaron Lochert]

5K FF or 5K WS are both taller aspect ratios than 2.4:1. There should never be a need to crop the left and right.

If you shot 5K HD, 4800 x 2700, you'd be throwing away 320 pixels horizontally for no benefit, because you'd still need to crop it down to 2.4:1 in the end, which results in a loss of resolution when compared to shooting full sensor width.

Usable 2.4:1 image area of the 5K HD frame: 4800 x 2000 = 9.6 megapixels.
Usable 2.4:1 image area of the 5K FF or 5K WS frame 5120 x 2133 = 10.92 megapixels.

Shooting 5120 width gets you more oversampling material to work with for your final 3840 x 1600 project.

 

[Phil Holland]

RED's WS aspect ratio is 2.37:1.

The DCI standard is 2.39:1 and people still for whatever reason land in the realm of 2.35:1 and 2.4:1 for other reasons.

Hence RED sort of landing in the middle.

You should be able to shoot WS and extract your final 2.39:1 (or whatever) and plop it into a 3840 wide container.

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

+1 for Phil's notes, and I would add that the small change in geometry between 2.35 and 2.4 is small enough that automatic framing tools should be good enough if a proper cropping pass is not in the mix. YMMV.

Cheers - #19

 

[Marc Wielage]

A few years ago, Michael Cioni of Light Iron posted this framing chart about 7 years ago showing how they were able to use a larger image for the 4K delivery of The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo in 2011:

The advantage of capturing a bigger frame and then cropping (not scaling) in post is that it gives you the freedom to reframe on all four sides during post. There are DPs who object to this for the potential of having their compsition drastically changed in editing and color, but I think as long as the cinematographer is part of this process, there's no problem.

 

[Karel Šimůnek]

Thank you guys. All of you! One more question. If a movie is in theaters in 2.39:1. What's the resolution (aspect ratio) for home projection iTunes, Bluray etc. I know that Bluray is 3840x2160 but I'm interested in that aspect ratio of the movie in the middle of black bars

 

[Aaron Lochert]

Thank you guys. All of you! One more question. If a movie is in theaters in 2.39:1. What's the resolution (aspect ratio) for home projection iTunes, Bluray etc. I know that Bluray is 3840x2160 but I'm interested in that aspect ratio of the movie in the middle of black bars

Easy enough to do the math: 3840/2.39 = 1606.

I've seen Marc say distributors prefer 3840 x 1600 though. That was a while back though so maybe things have changed.

 

[Karel Šimůnek]

Yes that's right. But if a movie in theaters is in 2.39:1 which is 4096x1714 I can fit vertical pixels to 1600 but in that moment I have 3982 pixel horizontally. So I have to cut out 71 pixels from each side to have the resolution of 3840x1600. Am I right?

 

[Aaron Lochert]

Again, 2.4:1 is wider than 2.39:1. If you scale your 2.39 master down to fit into the vertical dimension of a 2.4:1 project, you're going to have black bars on the left and right because 2.39 is not wide enough to cover. So instead you should scale that 2.39 master down to match the horizontal dimension of the 2.4:1 project. The frame will naturally crop out a negligible amount from the top and bottom.

Rechecking your math:

DCI scope is 4096 x 1716, not 1714

If you scale 1716 down to 1600 that's 1716/1600 = 1.0725. Scale the horizontal by the same factor: 4096/1.0725 = 3819, which is less than 3840. So I'm not sure how you arrived at 3982.

Really, the answer to all of this is that you should contact distributors and see if they have a preferred resolution for widescreen delivery.

 

[Karel Šimůnek]

Thank you Aaron. I guess my math is pretty bad
Thank you for everything. I think the full sensor is the best settings. Many pixels around to reframe it or stabilize the footage if needed

 

[Marc Wielage]

Easy enough to do the math: 3840/2.39 = 1606. I've seen Marc say distributors prefer 3840 x 1600 though. That was a while back though so maybe things have changed.

Depends on whether it's theatrical or home video. 3840x1600 is more typical for a UHD release (or 1920x800 for HD), simply because the math is a little easier.

But for theatrical, they generally want you to rigidly stick with the DCI standards. That would be 3840x2076 for 1.85 and 3840x1607 for scope. The distributors traditionally will give you written specs and generally insist that you stick to them to the letter. I'd say get it in writing and give them what they ask for, and ask questions if something doesn't make sense.