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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Has owning a Red helped your career?

Gene Sung

Gene Sung

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Seems like most of you guys on here are Red owner / operators. I’m hoping I can pick you brain a bit as I’m journeying towards purchasing a high end camera.

For me, I’m kind of knocking on boundaries of the mid-end jobs, which is why I’m considering investing in a Red or maybe an Alexa Mini. I do a fair bit of scripted network TV promos and TV show main-titles; and my reel is in a decent place, so I’m kind of thinking maybe a higher end camera might push me along a little bit. Here’s my reel so you guys can kind of get a sense of where I’m at.

http://www.builtbyugene.com/html_pages/html_index/index_reelliveaction.html

It’s not the best, but not the worse either. Probably somewhere in the middle.

When you guys too the plunge and went Red, as a DP did you feel that it helped raise you perception a bit in the eyes of producers and directors? Did it open some more doors for you and get you on some better projects?

Of course I believe the work comes first, but did you guys feel getting a Red helped your career a bit?

Do you feel like you would be in the same position career wise, if you did not have a Red?

Thanks for any insight as this is a major purchase for me.
 
As a generation 1 Red owner, unequivocally yes the camera helped. I was able to get on to higher level productions than I had ever been on at the time (2008). Being the first RED camera, 4K of resolution, and a bit of mystery/intrigue surrounding the company allowed for some interesting times as a camera owner. It was actually a very fun period, from 2007-2010.

In 2015, I would argue that having a RED won't necessarily work wonders on its own. However, if the RED is allowing you to get better images than you would otherwise, then you can argue it is helping your career by enhancing your work. I would only buy a camera now if I felt it was a better approach than renting. In other words, if your clients tend to shoot on RED, want to rent the RED package from you, and you can recoup the investment in a timely manner then it makes sense to purchase. If that's not the case, I'd be worried about the "build it and they will come" approach. Not sure that will work well. Ideally, they should be hiring you first and foremost because of your skill with any camera. Second to that is the convenience of renting the package from you, assuming it meets their needs. And a bonus is that you can then get to know that camera package very well and experiment on your own time.
 
For me it's sort of an obvious answer at this point. Yes. 100% yes.

When I broke off from the studio I worked with late 2010 after working in the industry for about 12 years I found myself in this weird abyssal state where I needed to move up and on to my goals to be a full time cinematographer. I started off on the VFX side of things, became a Digital Colorist when that was "new", and eventually created the job "Digital Imaging Specialist" that allowed me shoot on features and still do other work. And I was going to throw much of what I built away, though I'd carry that very important experience with me. That was a scary proposition as based on my studio clients I would need to fulfill a great deal of what a full pre-production, production, and post production studio could provide. Or at least provide that level of quality and confidence. At that point I had a healthy amount of experience which induced the confidence to move on as a solo entity.

But I needed tools to get the job done. And I wasn't about to start a full studio from the ground up with scanners, laser recorders, cameras, etc......

I started 2011 "on my own" and that was scary as hell. Had a mortgage, car payment, and basically became a floating freelancer. I had gear, but nothing like what I had access to before. About 30 days into being on my own however I got calls from studios and producers I previously worked with about "work". I was also offered a few positions at a few studios during that first year that would have seduced me easily a few years prior to all this. That temptation and money was really hard to turn away at that time. However, I worked with RED cameras before and I liked the potential of what they represented. And they were 4K or 4K+, which for me is "necessary".

I worked hard for months straight on various productions. Taking all sorts of work. Concept Art, Screenwriting, Color, VFX, Editing, DP'ing, Consulting, Building HDRI Rigs/Software, Texture Photography, etc..... Luckily the unique skill set I developed allowed me to work at a high level in a variety of fields.

Then November 2011 happened and Scarlet-X was announced. I was a Canon CPS member prior to that and was very attentive to their announcement that day as well. However, I trucked over to RED Studios Hollywood and sat down in Stage 3 like a few other folks and saw a "within reach" 4K camera in the Scarlet-X. That was such a fascinating moment because something clicked in my head and I put my deposit down. I also progressively came out of my rather secret cave around that time and started contributing a bit more to the REDuser community. Also leading up to the actual purchase date I worked for about 60 days straight, 60 long days. This was to help afford various bits of kit I was going to need along with the camera.

Once the Scarlet-X landed in my hands in December I needed to test the hell out of it and get it promptly to work. And that's exactly what I did. Had the camera payed off in a bit over a month. It was making sense for me and as my career was developing further my wants and needs for something like the Epic Mysterium-X became more apparent as I needed to rent them for more and more shoots that wanted 5K or slow motion.

I continued to work hard. Posting a sliver here and there on REDuser with BTS stills and what not, at least from productions I could actually post anything from. I made some good money from working a lot, shooting a lot, and building.

My world was/is 4K and 4K+, just like it was when working with film at the old studio. The Red Scarlet and Epic were essentially the main tools I was using to make a living. I finally was able to make that jump up to Epic-X Mysterium-X and thankfully (and extremely gratefully) was able to make the further leap up to Epic Dragon and was able to kit up with proper glass and support around then as well. My career has grown substantially in the last 2 years and I've shot my best work on Dragon. It's for my money what pushed us into the "true" digital film alternative and that's exactly how I've been using it on every type of job you can imagine. In private consultation with other studios and a few notable DPs they were "feeling" the same thing I was feeling about Dragon. And owning Dragon has really payed off further as there's less and less of a reason for me to shoot with any other system due to what it "can" do.

It's been a crazy journey thinking about the risks of what it took to even just get that Scarlet-X at that time in my live and what's happened since. I've now instructed at REDucation, special RED workshops, and of course contributed as much as I can to this REDuser community. It's really one of the only things I can do to give back to the company and community that's allowed me to work towards my main creative and career goals in a way that previously really wasn't possible.

At the moment I'm in the middle of DP'ing the largest budget commercial project I've been solely responsible for (multi-million) and I'm shooting this all on Epic Dragon. Several Dragons no less and apparently every lens I can think of. I'm on a war path to push my career and creativity further. This time next year I hope to be further along still towards my narrative cinematography goals and there are certain things within sight that make this a reality I can nearly touch.

Long ago I realized I developed a rather strange skill set of being able to shoot footage on film, bring it in digitally, provide feature level color and post work on it, and see it delivered to the big screen. This was a natural progression of my interests and I dreamed of a time where I could do that "on my own". RED has allowed me to do that and still achieve the highest quality images that are suitable for any type of delivery. In many ways I navigated towards what RED was doing. Now my decision to shoot RED is strengthened even further with Dragon getting into the realm of 8K VistaVision+ (which is one of my favorite film formats). I've been harping on the internet for over a decade about wanting that and RED got the industry here with that film format/resolution relevance and I'm way on board because "I get it", but more importantly know how to shoot very high quality images with these cameras.

On a more simplified explanation. Actually owning cameras like REDs has allowed me to progress quicker and speed things up exponentially. I'm shooting a good portion of the year for all types of jobs. Even the simple concept of not having to burn prep and return days ahead and after shoots is such a time and money saver that it's payed off.

I'm grateful for all of this in ways I can never fully explain. I've been keen to take up shooting opportunities, execute at a high level, and build my career rather aggressively. I am very, very passionate about the motion picture industry and creating compelling images. RED has been an integral part of this process and will be for some time to come. I've shot my best and biggest work with RED cameras on no budget through multi-million dollar feature films. It's been perhaps the most flexible tool in my arsenal to allow that freedom.

Just need to remind myself to go out there and shoot for fun a bit more. Love me a good green screen shoot (got one coming up on the 7th!), but it pales in comparison to the subtle palette of a nice sunset with a sky laced with stringy clouds. Plus I have my own projects I need to focus on producing and shooting. Which is a happy reminder that I need to push harder and luckily I can give myself a very good deal on the gear to shoot those projects.
 
Whoa. Just saw how long that was. Sorry for the wall of text. It's been a hell of journey thus far.
 
Thanks for sharing, Phil. Interesting to know how you guys started.
 
When we received the MX upgrade to our R1 we forever lost any excuse for not being able to produce motion picture quality content. If Red had not kicked the door down back in 06-07 I doubt I would have ever been able to say that. Being close to retirement (began editing in 1977) I doubt any of the current camera makers would have blazed a trail to 4k and beyond had it not been for Red Digital Cinema. Sony was selling glorified HD cameras for more than a quarter million dollars.
Digital content professionals may not acknowledge it but everyone one of us owe Red gratitude for expanding our capabilities. As an early adopter I could not be more proud!

To answer your question. Owning a Red has helped my career. The trickle down effect of what Red started helped everyone else’s career.
 
Not to steal from Phil but parts of his timeline is close to mine.
I got into Computer Graphics in 93 to appease my love for video games.
Then Jurassic Park hit the theatres same year and I was bit by the CG bug.
Spent a great deal in 3D and Motion Design but never a serious film maker.
I figured Id have to grow up first so I started learning from the ground up so to speak so cutting training, spots and docs from media100 to present day (fill in all NLEs).
Years later I finally said I have to buy my way into film making cause schlepping as a assistance (watched friends and family do it and do it quite well) or slate :)
Thanks to the BT Scarlet in the Fall of 2012 (actually thanks to BMDs late delivery on the BMCC) I got myself in fast with the local film community in less time than most,
A full feature, a few shorts and a ton of music videos are priceless moments and experience I would have never have had if not for my own camera :)

Love my RED Scarlet and will be holding on to it for a very long time.
 
Same for me (you get more respect and that wow factor) when you Own a RED. Says you aren't messing around plus so many people use DSLRs and having a RED really does help. In fact more than half my gigs/jobs i got was due to owning a RED. Just don't expect to make a ton of money like that/all the time. One bad thing about owning a RED is when it sits on your shelf for a long time (that hurts).
 
In a market that has become so saturated with good cameras, I would not expect the spectacular results achieved from early users buying into a Red cameras at this time. That being said, having a Red ALWAYS puts you in a position to barter and do favors for people which can lead to other jobs. This was the major thing I did get out of buying my Scarlet MX, besides simply having a great tool to build on my film ideas and screen writing...

The truth about Hollywood I have seen played out over and over is that most film and media companies don't want to work with filmmakers; they do want to take meetings but only to copy your ideas if they like them and develop them with people they already know or have contracts with. Don't expect too much and you may end up being pleasantly surprised! The camera, if you have the proper editing tools does give the ability to master at a very high level. This needs to be enough for you or I'd say buying one right now is an expensive mistake. The other interesting thing I can say with absolute certainty is that there are few better ways for becoming truly enlightened about the lack of integrity of most of the people you know than buying a Red camera...
 
Phil Holland said:
Whoa. Just saw how long that was. Sorry for the wall of text. It's been a hell of journey thus far.
Click to expand...

The passion that flows from your words, sentences, paragraphs……….. refreshing.

It's one thing learning the technology…….. it's another to share ……….and yet another to be able to communicate (excellent writing) such acquired knowledge in such a caring educational tone.

Well Done. DPhil
 
Kinda wish I had Phil's experience with his camera but I've never been just a camera guy...a producer, writer, director, owner of a functioning movie theatre, a distribution company, film instructor, father of four....I bought the Epic M's (and now Dragons, and soon to be Weapons) based on the idea we could have our own productions pay for them and thus eventually make money. Unfortunately we've been stuck in development on a number of projects so the making money part has not yet materialized.

This is in large part due to the fact we're in the middle of nowhere and it's a largely Arri town with some Sony sprinkled in.

I hold out hope there will be some new productions coming our way -one of which is a feature we are shooting this fall. There was supposed to be a major series going in June but it was pushed a year...right there the cameras will make a lot being rented for 14 weeks straight.

I have faith in Red and believe it was the right way to go. Has it helped my career? No, I'd like to think the work I do has something to do with that...the mechanism with which I shoot only adds to the final result.
 
Having a tool that makes my movies look like film, YES.

Making a good movie... NO... since it's still my skills to write, direct, edit, and producer the movie.

Making income so I can live and pay rent and bills, and pay off the camera over time... YES. This however is dictated by market demand, and what you own and your price. There is no guarantee nor will it last forever. A mop for a janitor has a better return and longevity...ha, ha. :smash:
 
Indeed, I saw it as a VERY large stone chained to my feet on a catapult: film crews needed my camera, but then suddenly they needed my camera and myself!
 
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