Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Has anybody used Twixtor on the RED slow motion footage? I'm going to miss 240fps....

Yash B

Yash B

Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2014
Messages
19
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
South Africa
Has anybody used Twixtor on the RED slow motion footage? I'm going to miss 240fps in 1080p directly from my Sony FS700. Shot this with it on Saturday.
https://vimeo.com/98270918

Once I sell my FS for a Scarlet, I'm limited to 96fps in 1k on the Scarlet, which is considerably less than 240fps at 1080p, so has anybody Twixtored RED footage at 96fps? What's the slowest you can get before warping appears?

(Side note, I cannot post a wanted ad on the marketplace, any idea why?)
 
Same advice: if you need highspeed, keep the Sony, buy an Epic or buy the Scarlet and rent an Epic if you need it. You can get 120 @ 1K WS but 1K is a big crop.
 
While the structure at RED clearly outlines specific units for each type of user, (moreso with the addition of DRAGON) I too am curious if RED will be making a FPS update for the SCARLET-X.

With consideration given to the RED ONE, and the competitors market, I'm somewhat surprised that RED hasn't provided the SCARLET with a much needed bump in the 2K mark.

Considering it's predecessor was capable of up to 120fps at 2K, I'm left to assume that the SCARLET is of the same. Perhaps, previously, RED was protecting it's own, (albeit used, but, legacy) however, with the new line about us, I'd only be left to assume that the SCARLET-X is the more than adequate replacement.

That being said, why not provide it with the same specs? Units like the GH4 are capable of 96fps at 1080, Nikon 1, and A7S doing 120fps at 720p, 1K seems to be a crippling effect when making the choice between devices.

While I understand that there are other features that clearly establish the SCARLET above other consumer choices, the gap is closing, and it is beginning to leave something to be desired.

Sure, you could say "buy an EPIC" or "keep your Sony", but, SCARLET is designed to be an entry level RED, and at it's price, should easily rival, if not establish dominance over store bought alternatives - all it requires is a firmware update.
 
Brian Wicens said:
Considering it's predecessor was capable of up to 120fps at 2K, I'm left to assume that the SCARLET is of the same. Perhaps, previously, RED was protecting it's own, (albeit used, but, legacy) however, with the new line about us, I'd only be left to assume that the SCARLET-X is the more than adequate replacement.
Click to expand...

different compression ratios(I think, different compression methods also)

I own two Gh2's and would argue about the simple fact that what you're getting at highspeed isn't equal in all cameras.

Simple facts about the GH2, is the sensor is different than the two predecessors. If you have the right hack, you can get 2000iso without noise, solid blacks, a clean image... out of the camera, not using corrective software.

Brian Wicens said:
Sure, you could say "buy an EPIC" or "keep your Sony", but, SCARLET is designed to be an entry level RED, and at it's price, should easily rival, if not establish dominance over store bought alternatives - all it requires is a firmware update.
Click to expand...

That's the Alexa that has a highspeed license, not the Red Scarlet. Not that I have actually opened up the two and looked; but, I believe there is a physical difference in the processing units.

Be interesting to see a blown up image to 4k of the Red Scarlet@1k, Sony FS700, Alexa...etc and compare.

also wonder, with that huge of a crop, would fisheye, be a fisheye?(guess you could use a 8mm c-mount 16mm film lens too.)
 
With only one epic with around 600 miles of my city, it's going to cost around $1500 a day...

I'm going to hold on the Sony a little longer.

Won't be able to do things like this which I shot on Sunday, edited last night.
https://vimeo.com/98398738

Will have to save up for an epic! Holy crap that's a lot of money.
 
Jeffery Anderson said:
different compression ratios(I think, different compression methods also)

I own two Gh2's and would argue about the simple fact that what you're getting at highspeed isn't equal in all cameras.

Simple facts about the GH2, is the sensor is different than the two predecessors. If you have the right hack, you can get 2000iso without noise, solid blacks, a clean image... out of the camera, not using corrective software.
Click to expand...

The RED ONE, SCARLET-X, and EPIC-X all share the same Mysterium Sensor. However, it's been made quite clear that the SCARLET and EPIC are two completely different cameras - boards, memory, hardware.

While the camera may be capable of higher results, it's been mentioned more than enough times that the build may not be stable enough to support.

However, based off current those same capabilities, and information from these forums over the years; it's more than likely that the SCARLET is able to shoot 2K @ 120fps, pending compression rates.

That being said...


Jeffery Anderson said:
That's the Alexa that has a highspeed license, not the Red Scarlet. Not that I have actually opened up the two and looked; but, I believe there is a physical difference in the processing units.

Be interesting to see a blown up image to 4k of the Red Scarlet@1k, Sony FS700, Alexa...etc and compare.

also wonder, with that huge of a crop, would fisheye, be a fisheye?(guess you could use a 8mm c-mount 16mm film lens too.)
Click to expand...

RED has provided "licensed" upgrades throughout the lifetime for each of their cameras, free of charge. With respect to that, there's a business to consider, and that dictates the approach for each device.

Perhaps, it's just not in the cards to upgrade the hardware, but, upgrade to DRAGON instead.

Only if, in the future, matching the SCARLET-X and EPIC-X becomes more streamlined, as is the same for both of the DRAGON lines.



Also, while I've never personally experimented, I would imagine anything shot at 1K (1280x480) can only be held to similar resolutions @ 720p.
 
I too am interested in anyone's experience with using Twixtor on Scarlet frame rates and compressions. Not having had the chance to try it myself...
 
That f5 footage looks great, what sort of look did you apply


Yash B said:
With only one epic with around 600 miles of my city, it's going to cost around $1500 a day...

I'm going to hold on the Sony a little longer.

Won't be able to do things like this which I shot on Sunday, edited last night.
https://vimeo.com/98398738

Will have to save up for an epic! Holy crap that's a lot of money.
Click to expand...
 
Hey man,

I just realised you're from South Africa too :)
Sadly you've come at a bad time as the ZAR to USD exchange is really bad at the moment!
Then again, its not going to get better any time soon (I'm talking years, not months - dare I say, ever!?)

There are a bunch of epics around the country, I'm sure you'll be able to get one for less than $1500 when the right job comes up.
Stick with the Sony and save for that Epic!

Cheers
D
 
While using any optical flow type software which interpolates frames, you'll want to give the software as much as you can to work with. Shoot at the highest frame rate you can while maintaining the highest quality you want to output. You can increase your shutter speed as well, which will essentially give the software more information to work with. So the Epic, I will generally shoot at 5K WS to get 120fps. If I need faster, then I either rent a phantom, or keep my shot simple if I'm going to extend beyond that with software.

The trick with this strategy, is to keep your subject on a simple/clean background, like sky for instance. If you shooting someone over grass, the software will have a lot of trouble generating new frames without looking CG. Simple background, simple subject is what you want. So if I know I'm going to use the software, I'll shoot at 120fps and keep the shutter speed at around 1k if I can, so that way it's giving the computer more time to process new frames.

I've used both Twixtor as well as Motion's Optical Flow. Twixtor takes A LONG time to render out, and it's interface is a bit more complex than motions. I think motion is just as good, and it's $50.
 
Ian D said:
That f5 footage looks great, what sort of look did you apply
Click to expand...

thats f700 footage... F5 looks much better than that, also more detailed for obvious reasons.
 
>>What's the slowest you can get before warping appears?

It depends 100% on the footage. If nothing is behind the moving object for example you can push more.

I would say anywhere from 20-60% of the original speed is a good range to work but I did some that looked passable(?) at 5% of the original speed.

Twixtor is a pain/waste, the Phantom 4k is the king of slow motion for me. Best is to shoot Dragon and rent Phantom.

https://vimeo.com/53914149
 
Last edited:
Thanks everyone, yes it's FS700 footage, not F5. I would love to get my hands on an F5 because with S-Log and 10-bit, it comes close to a RED look with some work. (Not exact, but close, and with work!)

I've decided to keep the FS700 until some changes in the market happen, like if a used Scarlet Dragon becomes available, I could use 120fps. Alternatively I might go for a used Epic if I can afford it, but for now I think I will keep the FS and work harder to get reflectors and such setup outside etc.

Here's my last shoot. I realized I cannot say goodbye to slow motion that easily.
 
Brian Wicens said:
The RED ONE, SCARLET-X, and EPIC-X all share the same Mysterium Sensor. However, it's been made quite clear that the SCARLET and EPIC are two completely different cameras - boards, memory, hardware.

While the camera may be capable of higher results, it's been mentioned more than enough times that the build may not be stable enough to support.

However, based off current those same capabilities, and information from these forums over the years; it's more than likely that the SCARLET is able to shoot 2K @ 120fps, pending compression rates.

That being said...
Click to expand...

Two Cameras are being discussed in this thread, the Sony FS700 and Red Scarlet. What the hell are you talking about?!

I own a Red Scarlet, I've worked as a AC with the Epic, Alexa, c300, F55, FS700... if the Scarlet could shoot 2k @ 120fps, but only at a low compression ration it would just not be an option to shoot at the lower compression ratios when you switched to 2k and high speed options would exist.

Like talking to a producer about cameras. Until you've worked with these cameras, you'll never know enough about how they work.


Brian Wicens said:
RED has provided "licensed" upgrades throughout the lifetime for each of their cameras, free of charge. With respect to that, there's a business to consider, and that dictates the approach for each device. Perhaps, it's just not in the cards to upgrade the hardware, but, upgrade to DRAGON instead. Only if, in the future, matching the SCARLET-X and EPIC-X becomes more streamlined, as is the same for both of the DRAGON lines.

Also, while I've never personally experimented, I would imagine anything shot at 1K (1280x480) can only be held to similar resolutions @ 720p.
Click to expand...

like you switch topics in the middle of a sentence. What does, "there's a business to consider, and that dictates the approach of each device" even mean?

Do you know what an Alexa High-Speed License is?

Here's a Rule of Thumb: If you can't afford an Epic Rental, you probably can't afford HMIs, so you probably can't shoot highspeed anyways.

'nuff said
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top