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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Guys like this are the ones that are pulling the camera market down

Yep. The thing i don't like about this way of thinking it's making all the R1 BT story a money matter.

Some people were given the opportunity to have a R1 MX for a fraction of its retail value (directly from Red, that's the big thing!). With $4000 + buying accessories, we can study how to operate on a pro camera. We can develop good skills on it, and, at the end, we can take good jobs to repay everything and save for newer equipment. Shoot our stuff, shorts, movies, everything with the Great possibility given from Jim Jannard, end of story.

I go little off topic here, because i'm not talking about Humberto Ramos, but about other Redusers: i saw people in the marketplace that pretend to sell their used stuff (everything, not Red cameras) at an higher price than the same stuff new @retailers! I would call this SCAM, because information is power, and despite how good or how nice is "the seller", he really should call himself off to offer people his equipment, the minute after his goods suffers a price drop (i saw many). So, go to Wall Street, instead to fork the other people' douche in a community where there's professionals that give their advices FOR FREE.

Technology gets old, try to live with that.

End of rant, have fun with R1 MX :-)
 
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Robert Hart said:
With at least 1019 full-bodied SI2K cams out there and quite a few more mini head/laptop combinations, there may be a few people besides yourselves feeling a little seared by asset depreciation. The Super16mm film guys may not be feeling all that chipper either.

Interestingly, you will not find any SI2K cams on eBay right now. They have been listed very infrequently given the population of them, not Red One numbers but not insignifiant either.

That may be because depressed prices have swung below the threshold of attraction to sell but possibly also because people will still go on using them to the death-knock for themselves or indie films like some Red One owners will. A case of why sell what's not broke when it still returns credible images.
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For those who still want a SI2K kit :) : SI2K with Kowa Lenses for $5500
 
Ibrahim Abdulkarim said:
It saddens me to see these type of threads.

what market are you speaking of? Hopefully not the camera resell market. because if so youve missed the point entirely.

The way i see it cameras, lenses, lights ect should be more affordable as technology expands thus making opportunity to create more attainable. the purpose is to CREATE!.



I guess there's is 2 different industries.

1. People who buy merchandise to profit from renting/reselling

2. "filmmakers" that are thankful they now have the chance to produce without the restraints of limited budgets
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From reading your post I can guess you are broke. Sorry, but it's true. Take a business course. This is not poetry, or a painting you can make with just $100 of tools. This is expensive stuff which must be thought through as a business investment. i was plenty creative owning nothing and renting 100% of what we shot with.

You know what else? The most truly talented people I know don;t talk about "creation" in breathless terms, and respect the money people. (Hint).

That said it's all good and well that technology si bringing prices down, but the net effect may not be very utopian. For example in plasma monitors, cheap competition from "good enough" Chinese panels drove Pioneer out of the market. Now you could not, at any price, get a panel as good as a 2007 Pioneer Elite.

In cameras, it would make me sad if the only possible investment for people who are not idiots about money will be semi-disposable Black Magic garbage. we are almost there now.

You think there are not people out there thinking "I won;t upgrade to Dragon, because I don't trust Red not to slash prices in 6 months and never recoup my $10K?" Of course there are. Cameras have begun to move way too fast. Everything has. There is no longer a good time to buy vs rent almost anything.

And if only people who think about "creating" buy cameras - these people generally have no money and are not a viable market, and Red and many others will go out of business.
 
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People can sell their goods for whatever they see fit. Moreover, the value you get from the camera is about the WORK you do with it, not so much the resale value, if someone is looking to own things that hold their value then maybe art collecting would work better for them than filmmaking. Stop complaining about other people's choices and go shoot something.
 
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Robert Ruffo New said:
From reading your post I can guess you are broke. Sorry, but it's true. Take a business course.
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Condescending and rude at best. Even if you are 100% correct, these statements reflect poorly on your character. Your post would be so much more effective without these inflammatory comments. To each his own I guess.
 
Essentially, this thread's starter got upset because they wanted to sell their own camera bundle at a higher price. A couple of days afterwards, they listed their own bundle for much more.
 
Barry Sanders said:
Essentially, this thread's starter got upset because they wanted to sell their own camera bundle at a higher price. A couple of days afterwards, they listed their own bundle for much more.
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Who are THEY?
 

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Kwan, you've hit 2790 posts, all pretty calm and positive. This officially makes you the coolest guy on Reduser.

This thread is very interesting, with very valid points. Although we've been on this road b4 I can assure you that camera prices are not falling this fast. $5000 is a little too low for all that gear and accessories. The Red1 is still worth a lot in many developing countries and sellers would connect with a broker like Ketch Rossi, they actually find some value in their equipment.
 
Eric M Hurt said:
People can sell their goods for whatever they see fit. Moreover, the value you get from the camera is about the WORK you do with it, not so much the resale value, if someone is looking to own things that hold their value then maybe art collecting would work better for them than filmmaking. Stop complaining about other people's choices and go shoot something.
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This is crazy thinking that bankrupts many people. You can RENT the same camera and do the same work - it will not look any different. Only buy if it puts you $$$ ahead of renting to do the same work with the same (rented) camera, or buy if you cannot rent a particular item in your area and it is important to the work you want to do.

Of course creativity and talent are very important, but they are 100% unrelated issues to whether you should buy vs rent any particular item on an equipment list.

With advances that plummet prices too fast it will soon no longer be a good idea for anyone to buy a camera, at some point even rental houses will stop buying them. Then what?
 
Or if The prices plummets as far as you fear Robert, everyone will buy cameras
 
shashbugu said:
Kwan, you've hit 2790 posts, all pretty calm and positive. This officially makes you the coolest guy on Reduser.
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Multitudinous Thanks Sir,

Ok Fellas' In any investment, you expect to have fun and make money. Why we're stuck with this camera market myth. Ohh' forgot Jealousy is all the fun too (lol)
 
Joachim Hoge said:
Or if The prices plummets as far as you fear Robert, everyone will buy cameras
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That would be OK - that it be more or less like the way stills cameras are now - they are just a "tax" to all photographers, and it is merely assumed they own one - there is very often no line-item for them on a photo budget.

But… If this tax is too high then it makes it even harder for a photographer to have any expectation of ever making any money. I for one would regret a world where it would be impossible to make a living at and devote all one's time to cinematography and the higher the unrecoupeable start-up cost, the more cinematography will be for rich kids only with their parent's money to burn. That would be very regrettable.

Also… If prices are too cheap, then reliability, precision of manufacturing and so on will all take a hit, and we will all be forced to use some pretty unreliable tools.
 
Robert, you are 100% correct. The race to the bottom continues. Time for the hobbyists to take over. Welcome to the world of "being in a band" circa 1981. Waste your life away buying a Les Paul and learning "Smoke On The Water". Wake up at 40 at a dead end job and most certainly not making a living in the music business.
The film business has become a loser business. Everyone owning a camera is only the most outward sign of this. Oh well.
Cheers,
Harry
 
Come on guys, really? You guys actually think that Kirk's price for his kit is the norm now? A red one mx with all the accessories for $5k? Who ever got his kit is a "lucky sob" for sure but that doesn't set the price of all future red ones. I just hope who ever bought it won't have issues with it.
 
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