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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Guide a RED newcomer into spending al his money! :D

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Valerio Duregon

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Hi to everyone,i am Valerio, as you can see from my profile, and i am a newcomer to the Red world. I confess as a lot of other persone before me, that i have been a lurker on this site for two years. This is in fact the exact time required for me to save my money in order to purchase a Red camera.I also have to say that probably i will write a lot of wrong things, but please don't get angry with me since i am really a noob in RED territory,I was patiently waiting this months for some announcement from Red in the Scarlet department... and then BAM! Scarlet-W! i could not get more excited for an object since my first car!Now there is only one problem, i am a young (some may argue that this is not a problem) photographer that stepped into videomaking only some years ago. Since then i only used still lenses/dslr accessories and sometimes rent more serious equipment and lenses when needed. Therefore, i do not possess any serious accessory/cine lens required to shoot with RED (i have also to buy - aka build or get with leasing - a more powerful computer in order to edit at least in 4k).This is a screencap of my quote (which lacks of some equipment) on the Red site (i benefit from the student discount! Hehe! (: )
2ljl315.jpg
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Since my economic condition allows me to go around 20k, is there a way to cut the costs off? I mean, i really want to get the Scarlet-W for my work (i am going to shoot all the video from two electronic albums for very promising artists and various personal projects - ready to shoot), but only counting the body + a set of three cine lenses i get very near my 20k limit!Now i have found something like this --------> (http://x.com/red-weapon-raven-camera-accessory-kit-pro-19mm-configuration-guide.html)which i think has everything i need apart from memory storage and battery.The money saved would be then used to get lenses and other accessories and gear ( i.e gimbal etc.) Are there any other economic solution to keep me from getting the I/O package and other more expensive (yet probably more efficient) accessories?Have you any suggestion to offer to get the most complete and cost efficient package ready to shoot within 20k?Thanks in advance for your patience, i know this is the right place to ask question about Red, and everything else related to filmmaking! You guys have build probably the most incredible community of professional filmmakers! (:
 
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Welcome to the forum and to the world of RED. You will never regret it - except maybe that it will cost you a lot of money over the years! lol

One immediate thought:

I would opt for more than on mini-mag card. If you can't afford to grab 2 x 240's then, for now, just add a 120 or do 2 x 120. I say this because you will want to keep shooting while you are offloading your footage. Otherwise, you kill half your day. Of course, renting cards as you need them could work, too.

Good luck!
 
Wow. When I was a young student, I'd be lucky enough to wrangle enough dough for a bag of weed :w00t:
 
I agree with Terry.

I'd also add, that I think you may want more than one battery (if you don't already have V Mount bricks) . The bricks last about an hour and a half so, so plan on having a few so you don't get interrupted during your work because you are out of power.

I'd also suggest a second mag reader as well. If you're really turning over footage quickly this will allow you to offload both your cards with out interruption while the crew eats lunch.

As for cost cutting measures you mentioned, you say that you have still glass so you may want to look into getting the EF mount instead of the PL which will be a lot cheaper and you can use the glass you already have. If you ever need to shoot PL, you can rent the mount from an owner op on the forums or from a local rental house. If you do realize down the line that you need PL more often you can always pick up the titanium mount used on reduser for a pretty nice discount now-a-days.
 
The Scarlet-W Base I/O V-Lock Package comes with 120GB Mini-Mag which will give you approx 16-32mins recording time depending on your settings (eg. shooting 5K 24fps at 4:1 - 8:1 REDCODE compression). So with an extra 240GB Mini-Mag, you should have your minimum media needs covered (depending on how and what you want to shoot).

The Scarlet-W Base I/O V-Lock Package also comes with a DSMC Canon Mount - Aluminum. If you need a PL mount, there are cheaper third-party ones available, or you could try finding a second-hand RED DSMC one if you don't need one right away.

You could also save some money by just starting out with the Standard OLPF as part of your Scarlet-W Base I/O V-Lock Package.

You might want to order the camera and other bits but hold off on ordering the LIGHTWEIGHT PRODUCTION PACK, RED BRICK and RED BRICK Charger until you've done some more research into cheaper or possibly more suitable alternatives. There's nothing wrong with those products, but there are other options.

In any case, I also think you should factor in getting at least three or four V-lock batteries (of approx 150WH capacity). You'll have three months or so to wait for the camera to arrive, so why hurry when you can look further into it and maybe plan your equipment better.

Anyway, good luck with it.

And as an added word of advice, there will almost always be unforeseeable expenses that lead you to spending more than you thought you would, even when just sticking to the basic essentials. So factor that in if you can.
 
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Definitely more batteries...as Les mentioned, at the very least 3-4 large bricks (red bricks are pretty good value in terms of Wh capacity to cost, and my originals from R1 days lasted for years before I sold them). There are certainly less expensive options for v-mount batteries, but be advised that sometimes cheaper ones won't last you very long before cells go bad, especially under the high power demands of weapon cameras.

I'd probably spring for more media too. You could try to find some slightly discounted used media too. Some shoots don't allow you to download as you're shooting. There's nothing worse than halting shooting to download and re-use media. It creates too much room for error, and at the very least will cost you time sooner or later. I have 4x 256gb mags and have definitely shot them all out in a full day. Not saying you need that much, but at least a third card gives you breathing room to keep shooting while other cards get safely copied.

I'd put less money into cinema glass and use that extra money to buy a canon mount, or Allstar mount (which can cover a lot of lens needs, like Nikon, Leica-R, CY, as well as PL). Or WC PL mount...you can rent expensive glass on a per-job basis, but have more focal lengths in cinevised stills glass for less money that will get you by in many cases. Plus you can get by with less expensive screw-in filters, lens hoods instead of a mattebox system, etc. In other words, if you're not jumping into a client base that requires a full studio built setup, then there is little reason for you to spend on those things which will not help you cover the absolute basics (not to mention that $20k wouldn't get you close to that setup anyway).

You may not be able to buy good support at this point, but keep in mind that every bargain option will cost you in another way. Sometimes you get lucky and find a good fluid head go up for sale. I'd rather do that than buy a cheapish manfrotto head that is hard to use. That may be a secondary concern for you at this point, but something to keep in mind as you strategize. My overall build-up of gear over time was slow and steady. Most support accessories I purchased used and in stages. I'm still not exactly where I'd like to be, but I've opted for quality and value over lowest out the door cost, and I have not regretted this approach. On the upside, there have been a lot of better cine accessory options popping up that offer good mechanics/durability/value for less cost compared to arri, etc, which is good for people in your position. Just remember that a certain mattebox or follow focus or fluid head doesn't necessarily add much to your package in terms of rental rate, but it may add significantly to the quality of your work. It's a fine line to walk sometimes, but it's never fun or advisable to have to explain to someone that you blew a take on a pan or focus pull because of subpar equipment. So I wouldn't say that you should always buy the very best or highest price things just because, but don't buy the cheapest most poorly made things either, because that tends to be a waste of money, effort and opportunity. At the very least, do a lot of homework, find out who owns things you are considering purchasing, and get feedback on these things before you plunk down money. Whenever possible, take them on a test drive, even if it means renting stuff for a day or a project. Better to spend a little bit of money on a rental to find out if it really works for you before you drop thousands.

Good luck!
 
You're on track. I would recommend like others 2X media cards and 2-4X batteries to start.

RED Bricks should give you over 2 hours of camera runtime each, but you burn through it fast.

Here's a link to the 2-pack w/ charger included:
http://www.red.com/store/products/red-power-pack


You'll want to grab a baseplate of some time, RED's or 3rd party with 19mm or 15mm rod support. I use the DSMC QUick Release Platform Pack personally and mount my cameras on dovetails.
 
Question for all of you..

I have 4 anton bauer batteries and a charger... rather than having to buy V mounts, what should i get that will attach to the back of the base I/O, that will then allow me to use my awesome batteries?? thanks!
 
I was a big fan of the package, but now that I've calmed down a bit I'm going to wait till closer to when the camera ships to take advantage of 3rd party base expanders, and see if any important accessories ie displays come up for sale. but yes I would deffinately look into another Mini Mag, and battery solution.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ..._battery_hypercore_red_98wh.html/prm/alsVwDtl

this looks like a pretty good deal on batteries that work well with red cameras, I use them

oh yes, as someone else mentioned its worth it to start with the EF mount. the advantage of fool control and EF glass on the new DSMC2 body will be a very nice feature.. PL glass will work with any 3rd party mount.
 
Amazing! i wasn't expecting so much feedback! Especially considering that this is my first post.

I would not quote everyone, but i have read everything so far and i think i got the gist.


To Hugh Scully i say that probably i have all this money now because i do not spend what i earn from work in weed anymore, since i quitted to do it. Ahahaha (;


As everyone suggests i will buy at least one more Mini Mag 240 Gb and if i could find cheaper (and reliable) batteries (maybe the swiftronix? Any suggestion?) i would invest in a fourth mini mag (120).


For what concern the lenses i know that i will probably rent them out when serious lenses or particular one are needed, maybe when in the future i get more bucks i will buy some xenons. For now it better to stick with my still lenses (my best lenses actually are a Vario Elmar R 35-70 f/4; and a Tri Elmar 28-35-50 f/4 --------->gorgeous lens!) that a part from two outstanding leica ones are all very cheap (while fast) canon and nikon ones. Maybe i should think about some cheap cine lenses like the rokinon ones (but i don't really know... :/ ) which has useful characteristics like the cine focus ring or should i spend my money for one good still lens that i miss (maybe a used zeiss, leica or also Mamiya, since i recently got the Mamiya 7 II with an 80mm!) like a 90 mm.

So i'll buy a third party PL mount to save some money and use PL cine lenses when needed, buy the EF mount for my canon lenses and some adapters (i have to verify if it is possible) for Leica R and M lenses for Mamiya N lenses and for Nikon F lenses (yes i know, but i have a shit ton of different cameras since in photography i am already a professional and an amaetur since i was 5 years old... I also have an 8x10 Deardoff with the most amazing lenses ever produced by humans! If only i could find a way to adapt them... :Q__________ Even if i have nothing shorter than a 90mm).

Thanks Phil i was worried i had got all wrong! Now as Willis suggests i would not get the I/O package anymore and search for third party accessories, however as Litton points out i also would not search for the cheapest! I have three months so i would search for some used and good quality accessories. I.E. I will search as Phil says for a third party baseplate.


Any of you have any suggestion about third party accessories (batteries; XRL module equivalent; baseplate; Quick Release; Lens Mount; Lens Adapter; Shoulder Rig; Matte Box etc.)?


Anyway i really want to thank everyone! You guys are really amazing and i could not express how much i appreciate this and how helpful all your expert advices are! :D

Edit:

Yes Matthew i came to the same conclusion about the package. Thanks for the link to the package it is very interesting and with an awesome price/quality ratio! I will really keep it in consideration!
 
Valerio Duregon said:
To Hugh Scully i say that probably i have all this money now because i do not spend what i earn from work in weed anymore, since i quitted to do it. Ahahaha (;
Click to expand...

Just clowning with you, Valerio ;) Lots of good advice here for you. All the best with your purchase.
 
I suggest getting a Raven now, and plan to get VVeapon MG later (skip Scar-w).

Don't buy the Red kit.
Look into third party accessories for monitor (smallHD), rigging (smallRig & W C), and v-mount brinks (dynacore)

Perhaps buy used. Just get two 120GB mags or one 240GB and offload to a laptop.

Don't spend more then 10-12K total and put what you got left in an account.
Start saving everything you can and grow that fund for your next camera.

Use your existing stills glass w/ auto focus motors and use the fool control app

Keep saving... buy nothing else.

Then sell you're raven brain for 4k in a year when you're ready to buy VVeapon MG.

Once you're shooting 6K, then start worrying about better glass (and rent before you buy).
 
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I'd say don't buy anything. Just rent for now, when work comes in, and invest your money in things that won't get obsolete over time. Lenses, tripods, mounts, matte boxes, lighting gear... you're always going to need that stuff. Cameras come and go. What's hot today drops in value by half in maybe 4-5 years. But not lenses, and not tripods and mounts.
 
I suggest 512GB or 1TB Mini-Mags. They have the fastest write speeds. I'm not sure if Scarlet-W write speeds differ with different size media, but on the higher end cams (Epic-D, Weapon CF), you get faster write speeds on the 512GB and 1TB Mini-Mags. When you upgrade to a better camera, you'll appreciate not having to buy more media.
You can find good deals for used Mini-Mags on the forum.

I use a single 512GB Mini-Mag and a cheap laptop for offloading data in the field:
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?131728-Laptop-Data-Dump-Setup

At least two long-lasting batteries is a start. For saving money on batteries, you can try Power-U v-mounts on ebay. Look at this thread:
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?102628-Another-Cheap-battery-alternative

I'd only invest in accessories that you will also use when upgrading the camera brain.

Edit:
Corrected - As Nick said below, the Weapon Mg has the same write speeds for all Mini-Mags.
But Epic MX/Dragon and Weapon CF have faster write speeds with 512GB and 1TB Mini-Mags.
 
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Akin A said:
I suggest 512GB or 1TB Mini-Mags. They have the fastest write speeds. I'm not sure if Scarlet-W write speeds differ with different size media, but on the higher end cams (Epic-D, Weapon Mg, Weapon CF), you get faster write speeds on the 512GB and 1TB Mini-Mags. When you upgrade to a better camera, you'll appreciate not having to buy more media.
You can find good deals for used Mini-Mags on the forum.

I use a single 512GB Mini-Mag and a cheap laptop for offloading data in the field:
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?131728-Laptop-Data-Dump-Setup

At least two long-lasting batteries is a start. For saving money on batteries, you can try Power-U v-mounts on ebay. Look at this thread:
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?102628-Another-Cheap-battery-alternative

I'd only invest in accessories that you will also use when upgrading the camera brain.
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i second akin and daniels comments-
get out as cheap as you can obviously on most things, but invest in what will go on to bigger and better cameras. my trpiods have been with me for almost 20 years and so have some of my lenses. the raven is the most i will spend on any camera ever,until im sure i get intot he whole upgrading game with RED, mainly because i rent when i need highend, but many other cameras have come and went. so the first thing i know from seeing my friends go through alexa and red media, only buy the ones that will last you through upgrades of sensors and brains. the first thing i did was find a nice deal, on reduser, for new but second hand 512 cards, with advice from others as well it was pointed out that the 120s and 240s are budget media and most likely not be fast enough for the next generation, for either when you uprgrade or just for resale.
so, first id look for that type of deal and buy at least 2 of those cards.
then i wouldnt go for the package, im not, id go for the brain, get the touch monitor and the i/o expander, wait until jan-feb tp see what batteries are out there, get 4!
that's it, keep it tight and cheap but dont settle for cheap substitutes for anything because youll be sorry.
 
Akin A said:
I suggest 512GB or 1TB Mini-Mags. They have the fastest write speeds. I'm not sure if Scarlet-W write speeds differ with different size media, but on the higher end cams (Epic-D, Weapon Mg, Weapon CF), you get faster write speeds on the 512GB and 1TB Mini-Mags. When you upgrade to a better camera, you'll appreciate not having to buy more media.
You can find good deals for used Mini-Mags on the forum.

I use a single 512GB Mini-Mag and a cheap laptop for offloading data in the field:
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?131728-Laptop-Data-Dump-Setup

At least two long-lasting batteries is a start. For saving money on batteries, you can try Power-U v-mounts on ebay. Look at this thread:
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?102628-Another-Cheap-battery-alternative

I'd only invest in accessories that you will also use when upgrading the camera brain.
Click to expand...

Bear in mind only Weapon Carbon takes advantage of these faster write speeds.
 
To the OP: what you have proposed can be understood as a design challenge. Here's the great designer Kevin Kelley interviewing one of the Great Designers, Fred Brooks, on the occasion of the publication of Brook's "The Design of Design". TL;DR? "Plan to throw the first version away." And if you read the book that quote comes from, you'll also read "You will anyway." JJ Abrams says the same thing about shooting a TV series (start here in the interview) where he says "there's no one--I don't care what they say--there's noone who knows exactly how the end of a series is going to play when they're writing the pilot. You could have the best idea at the time, but if you're actually making a show, you're going to suddenly cast someone who is absolutely wrong. In something. And the thing you think is going to play out a certain way won't. It just won't. Or! You cast someone you think [] is a good one episode thing, and they're a genius. And you're like "Huge Character!" For the rest of the show. You know...Michael Emmerson on LOST."

That's not to say that you need to actually dump your SCARLET-W in the trash right after buying it. Not at all. But what it does mean is that whatever ideas you had at the outset, no matter how well planned and war-gamed, will be subject to revision. "No plan survives first contact with the enemy." So the best plan is to prototype and evolve. Which means having enough resources that when you actually learn what you really should have done, you can do it instead of remaining stuck in a reality (or a dream) that doesn't really exist.

In exactly the same way that buying a camera or a lens is a ticket to playing a new game, it is also just like buying a LOTTERY ticket. There is a chance that buying it is in fact the winning ticket to the game. There's a chance that buying it does at least get you into the game. There's a chance that as soon as you scratch it off (send in your warrantee card), you realize it's not the game winner, nor even a very good entrant to the game. BUT! If you still have money to play with, you can buy another ticket. And it's not totally a game of chance if you learn something along the way and make a better decision the next time you buy a ticket. Once you are a master of the art, buying a tool is just that--a commodity transaction, with a 99.9% chance of success. The other 0.1%, you use that warrantee card to get a replacement copy that does work.

Whatever you do, I would advise not blowing 100% of your budget on the best thinking you can muster today. Spend somewhere between 1/3rd and 1/2 your money today, then prototype and evolve. And earn more money while you do. Then you can spend another 1/2, and another 1/2, and another 1/2, and always be ready to move up or out as you learn. If you spend 100%, and you are off target by 50%, or even as little as 25%, you are stuck. And you may not be able to get unstuck.
 
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