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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

GROUP BUY: CAME steadycam 2-15kg >1600USD

GROUP BUY: CAME steadycam 2-15kg >1600USD

  • < 1500USD

    Votes: 79 71.2%

  • < 2500USD

    Votes: 20 18.0%

  • < 3500USD

    Votes: 6 5.4%

  • > 3500USD

    Votes: 6 5.4%
  • Total voters
    111
Brett Harrison said:
This stuff is what I have in mind when I think of less-than-clinical steadicam moves:

http://www.steadishots.org/shots_detail.cfm?shotID=277
http://www.steadishots.org/shots_detail.cfm?shotID=278

I don't think they are bad in the sense of level of skill (it's intentional), just in terms of how much 'additional' pitch, yaw and roll there is.
Click to expand...

WOW im only really responding so quickly as i am scheduling what i am doing next week but there is nothing wrong with John Ward's stuff. That is insanely hard to shoot like that
especially when the camera is in low mode. IE the camera is upside down or right on the ground so the entire rig is the other way round.

What i am talking about is when the camera constantly sways and moves in the horizontal direction. Or when the operator starts walking forward, the camera dips down or pulls up. Another common problem is people get to stuck in keeping the camera upright that their framing sucks and they have too much head room (one of the most common problems of all time!)

Those shots would not be as smooth on an Easy rig, but depening on the director i would probably prefer being on an easyrig and holding the camera into my body just above the hip.
Another thing to remember is that a lot of directors dont have a lot of experience in steadicam so they look to the operator for the shots. This is a big part of the craft.

If you are with an easy rig, they just assume its like hand holding a camera
 
Zakaree Sandberg said:
http://www.wondlan.com/product/wireless-mnemonic-follow-focus/

600 bucks
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Zak you would be the first one to agree that no decent focus puller would use that rig! And here is another problem that i have encountered when trying to cut costs on a job...

You need a really really really good focus puller when shooting steadicam, i generally like to sit around T4 when lighting so imagine walking around a scene with an inexperienced operator?
Let alone using canon glass that has a really short focus throw!

Believe me i always use Cine glass (my main lens is an Arri LWZ 2 14.4-45mm lens) and when i use "helpers/ junior camera assists" and even light to F8. Man my shot are soft as f%$K. Especially when fllming a moving subject like 2 people dancing.

Thats why for all PAID jobs i use a proper focus puller
 
Adam Eden said:
Zak you would be the first one to agree that no decent focus puller would use that rig! And here is another problem that i have encountered when trying to cut costs on a job...

You need a really really really good focus puller when shooting steadicam, i generally like to sit around T4 when lighting so imagine walking around a scene with an inexperienced operator?
Let alone using canon glass that has a really short focus throw!

Believe me i always use Cine glass (my main lens is an Arri LWZ 2 14.4-45mm lens) and when i use "helpers/ junior camera assists" and even light to F8. Man my shot are soft as f%$K. Especially when fllming a moving subject like 2 people dancing.

Thats why for all PAID jobs i use a proper focus puller
Click to expand...

i agree...
im not posting this for paid jobs..

im posting this for the guys who are just doing their own projects with no budget, who have no money to pay a steadicam operator.
the guys who are interested in buying a 1200 $ steadicam for independent, self funded, projects..

im not saying any of this stuff is pro, or meant to take the place of the real deal..

but mark my words.. a focus system as good as the preston, and a steadicam as good as the zephyr will come out eventually for bottom barrel prices.. its inevitable..
true.. you cant buy skill for 1300 bucks..
but you can buy the tools to practice on..
if you can get good on a chinese "steadicam" or learn to pull focus on a chinese wireless focus system.. then DAMN how good will you get once you get the chance to put on a real rig and pull with a real focus unit...
of course I would recommend anyone take the class to learn proper tech... perhaps some steadicam ops will start offering classes for less than the 3000 dollar steadicam class
 
Adam Eden said:
What i am talking about is when the camera constantly sways and moves in the horizontal direction.
Click to expand...

I'm referring to the rotational aspects, not the speed or rig orientation. There's plenty of swaying in the 'let's get it done' clip, occasional pitches up and down, (and weird knocks). But from an aesthetic standpoint it's a great shot, let alone from a technical one.
 
I'm shooting 3 days of Steadicam this week. Ill try and shoot some bad examples that people hate and post next weekend.

EDIT*** Im not going to shoot badly for 3 days! Ill shoot some examples that are common mistakes.
 
Last post on this subject for me but the below link, is what inspired me to learn the craft of steadicam and as you can see from this shot it is totally seemless and leaves you feeling very emotional as the camera is showing you its point of view rather than you looking at a series of locked off shots and making your own mind on what to focus on ( and yes i do realise shooting shallow dof does something similar) but having all the of the subject matter in focus and the actual movement of the camera taking you on a journey is a different feeling and in my opinion more powerful.

The end of this scene is just simply breathtaking.

http://steadishots.org/shots_detail.cfm?shotID=111

I promise thats the last i hijack this thread...
 
I generally agree with Adam on all points. I would add that you can get a monitor for $1200 from Marshall that is viewable in most situations.

As for the FMJ shots, notice there was nearly no roll (horizon tipping). The "bad" aspects of the framing were clearly an aesthetic choice to create a quasi-POV shot.

Some equipment is so lacking that it will NOT help you learn to operate better gear later. If you have a cheap rig that can't be properly balanced, you will ingrain bad habits of overcontrolling and contorting your back and body to compensate.

As for the Wondlan follow focus, its focus knob is tiny, from the looks of the motor it will be useless on anything but stills lenses. The cheap motors are also LOUD so they are useless on any shots that are not MOS. It doesn't appear to be able to map the lens to the full travel of the knob. So, no...this is also not a unit that will help you learn much about pulling focus. It's a very expensive toy.

Something that I haven't mentioned before is that the CAME system appears to rip off features of the Tiffen Steadicam system that are still under patent. Would you so casually run out to buy a $1200 Epic knockoff that infringed on Red's intellectual property?

Noel's footage: it shows the typical shortcomings of newbie footage...over-control of the gimbal causing jittery pans, bouncy horizons, headroom issues, etc. Not a criticism of Noel. It's fine for a first effort. This is how all our footage looks at the beginning. Unfortunately these issues make it hard to evaluate what the real strengths and weaknesses of the system might be.

What camera did you use, Noel? How heavy was it? How did you monitor...did you add batteries and monitor to the bottom of the sled or did you use the camera's onboard monitor? If so, how did you get a signal to the monitor (since the unit appears to have only a composite SD RCA down the centerpost)? What was your drop time? Were you able to get dynamic balance? Can you post a picture of your rig with a camera on it?
 
Mark Schlicher said:
Noel's footage: it shows the typical shortcomings of newbie footage...over-control of the gimbal causing jittery pans, bouncy horizons, headroom issues, etc. Not a criticism of Noel. It's fine for a first effort. This is how all our footage looks at the beginning. Unfortunately these issues make it hard to evaluate what the real strengths and weaknesses of the system might be.

What camera did you use, Noel? How heavy was it? How did you monitor...did you add batteries and monitor to the bottom of the sled or did you use the camera's onboard monitor? If so, how did you get a signal to the monitor (since the unit appears to have only a composite SD RCA down the centerpost)? What was your drop time? Were you able to get dynamic balance? Can you post a picture of your rig with a camera on it?
Click to expand...


I had the 5 inch touch screen, v-mount on the back of the camera, cage, top handle, all mounted on the sled. About 15lbs of gear. If you include the sled and counterweights, the arm is holding about 25lbs of weight. This rig doesn't have an RCA jack, but I didn't need it since the monitor was mounted on the camera (much like I operated my Steadicam Merlin). It has a hollow center post that you can run cables through. It's not the ideal way to look at the monitor, I just haven't taken the time to sit down and order everything else I need yet.

I realize it's not perfect but I like the way it looks, and I am aware of what excellent Steadicam work looks like. Compared to doing a walk and talk hand held this is a huge improvement. The problem areas you mention such as the jitterness in the pans were me. I was working on very rocky and uneven terrain, where it was diffult to hold the post steady, thus the bounciness. It's clear I need more practice, which I intend to do, while not perfect, I am satisfied with the results. I did purchase the Steadicam handbook which I am reading and plan on practicing the techniques discussed. Is it possible I may form some bad habbits due to not having a pro rig? Maybe? but I think that's better than practicing nothing, and I firmly believe my results will improve with practice.

Mark, there are a lot of Scarlet owners on here working on micro budgets, who scrapped up every dollar they had to purchase their dream camera. I've read a lot of the snide remarks on cinematography.com (which I frequently read) about "RED people". It's not "RED people" buying this stuff it's indie people (And the occasional users), which RED has a lot due to the advent of the Scarlet. Hiring a pro-operator for the majoritiy of these indie features is simply not feasable. I don't plan on advertising, telling people I am a Steadicam operator, and I would recommend pro shoots use a pro operator, but I find nothing wrong with using this on the indie films I work on, some of which I finance myself.

I don't plan to cheapen the art of Steadicam work, any more than a novice DP would cheapen David Mullen's work. When Garret Brown first showed some individuals how to operate the Steadicam, their first remark was "Please don't show anyone else." This is the feeling I get from many of the pro steadicam operators. That's one reason I love this forum, because we have people like David Mullen on here who would prefer to offer advice rather than discourage people from trying. It's not always about having the perfect gear, it's about working within your limitations which all filmmakers do.
 
Noel R. said:
I had the 5 inch touch screen, v-mount on the back of the camera, cage, top handle, all mounted on the sled. About 15lbs of gear. If you include the sled and counterweights, the arm is holding about 25lbs of weight. This rig doesn't have an RCA jack, but I didn't need it since the monitor was mounted on the mera (much like I operated my Steadicam Merlin). It has a hollow center post that you can run cables through. It's not the ideal way to look at the monitor, I just haven't taken the time to sit down and order everything else I need yet.

I realize it's not perfect but I like the way it looks, and I am aware of what excellent Steadicam work looks like. Compared to doing a walk and talk hand held this is a huge improvement. The problem areas you mention such as the jitterness in the pans were me. I was working on very rocky and uneven terrain, where it was diffult to hold the post steady, thus the bounciness. It's clear I need more practice, which I intend to do, while not perfect, I am satisfied with the results. I did purchase the Steadicam handbook which I am reading and plan on practicing the techniques discussed. Is it possible I may form some bad habbits due to not having a pro rig? Maybe? but I think that's better than practicing nothing, and I firmly believe my results will improve with practice.

Mark, there are a lot of Scarlet owners on here working on micro budgets, who scrapped up every dollar they had to purchase their dream camera. I've read a lot of the snide remarks on cinematography.com (which I frequently read) about "RED people". It's not "RED people" buying this stuff it's indie people (And the occasional users), which RED has a lot due to the advent of the Scarlet. Hiring a pro-operator for the majoritiy of these indie features is simply not feasable. I don't plan on advertising, telling people I am a Steadicam operator, and I would recommend pro shoots use a pro operator, but I find nothing wrong with using this on the indie films I work on, some of which I finance myself.

I don't plan to cheapen the art of Steadicam work, any more than a novice DP would cheapen David Mullen's work. When Garret Brown first showed some individuals how to operate the Steadicam, their first remark was "Please don't show anyone else." This is the feeling I get from many of the pro steadicam operators. That's one reason I love this forum, because we have people like David Mullen on here who would prefer to offer advice rather than discourage people from trying. It's not always about having the perfect gear, it's about working within your limitations which all filmmakers do.
Click to expand...

Well said, the times they are a-changing...
 
Noel,

Respect to you for your serious-mindedness and dedication to improvement. To reiterate, my quick take on the footage is not meant as personal criticism. Just as an observation that the limitations or potential of the rig can't be accurately assessed from beginners' footage.

Like in any endeavor, there are snobs, spoiled and entitled windbags, and self-appointed gatekeepers...and there are other masters (like Garrett) who are always willing to share knowledge and wisdom with others who are serious about the art and craft.

Like any endeavor, there are also wannabes and hacks and poseurs. I don't believe that you are one of them, but let's face it, the industry is crawling with them with the advent of cameras like the Scarlett. Lots of people who wouldn't know a soft key from a hole in the ground calling themselves DP's. Plenty of owners of "Steadicam-shaped objects" with business cards that proclaim themselves as Steadicam operators. I've run into many of them personally as well as online.

The art form is overrun with people who fetishize their gear, and may even know what all the buttons do...but don't know how to light or frame a shot...and don't know that they don't know. Or are too lazy or self-impressed to learn their craft before they attach the label. Then they dismiss notions of dedication to craft as being old-fart crankiness that steps on their indie creative genius.

That's what really annoys me as well as many of my colleagues. The wannabes cheapen the craft both financially and artistically because sooner or later many if not most of them try to market themselves as professionals. They depress rates by selling themselves cheap (because they've justified that the gear is already "paid for") and don't have the skills to get the job done. They'll eventually wash out or get better, but in the meantime the damage is done and everyone suffers.

"The times they are a-changing"...sure they are. The times always change. I get it and I adapt because it's my living and also because I'm excited as anyone about new tools. Anyone who believes this is about resistance to change is either simply mistaken, or has drunk some hipster-kool-aid.
 
I hope these comments aren't directed at me, i regularly help people in Australia and i am in my 40's now so i am not worried about people taking work from me as i am well established in this industry.

My comments on this thread are to add some reality to this cheap rig. If anyone thinks you can spend $1500 on a rig and start using it, then you are wrong. Even with my big Steadicam rig that i spent about $50k on i still had to spend nearly the same again to get it operational.

Even if you do buy this rig, good luck to you. But just add $2000 for a Hocus Products and what Mark claims, a Marshall monitor for $1200. Thats nearly $5k. I applaud people wanting to learn the craft, i am just pointing out the extras.

People on this thread need to know this. I am not being negative, i am just telling the truth.
 
Would any of the SmallHD products work as a good substitute for the Marshall?
 
MOVcam contacted me. They are considering an offer for the Avant Series S for the group buy. But there won't be any news until February 18th, since the Chinese New Year starts tomorrow.

I wrote CAME again about a test unit, some pictures and a metal case with foam.
 
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