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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Great news! A Production Hold.

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Presidents and Mad Scientists of any corporations are not trained to deal with the customers. Engineers are good designing the products accountants are trained to do accounting and Sales people are trained to sale, customer service is trained to deal with customers.
How many times I was told to shut up and never talk to customers again. I am just not trained to do customer service. I think RED doesn’t have customer service yet, trained and dedicated to deal with customers. I don’t think if RED has even sales department.
But I hope that Jim will still post here the bad news as well as good news and we all know by now who has long fuse and who has short.
 
143 here -

I didn't receive an e-mail. So you can add me to the 'missed' list, if there is such a thing.

Personally, I blame fire. All you people who talk about "fire is the cleansing cycle of nature" can stick it where, er, the flame don't burn (?). I WANT MY RED!

Wah.
 
As a dop who works with lots of different hd cameras and sometimes even film, it is frustrating to see people who are not swept up with redigious fervour getting lambasted on these forums. All the top end cameras such as varicams, 900rs, genesis, d20's and reds have their place in this industry. Not one camera is good for all things. The red will not be good for observational documentaries or things with lots of hand held. At present, from the photos of peoples rigs, it does not look that ergonomic, and believe me, if you have to hand hold on any drama or doc for a day, this counts. Long term reliability and servicing/repair issues for "around the world use" have yet to be ascertained.

The stories that we film are more important than the technology we use. The way we choose to tell those stories and where that happens dictates what kit we should use. No camera is ever perfect for all projects, but from the choice that we have just now, we are well covered.

I really look forward to getting a chance to use the red camera, but I don't believe that it is the camera to slay all others.

steve gray
director of photography
london uk
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1034732/
 
These new upgrades sound fantastic. A shooters dream. But we camera assistants have a dream, too. My dream is of a red lens capable of a smooth, light touch focus pull. A red lens with witness makes. A red lens with more detailed footage makings so I don't have to sweat shooting at 50mm on the Variable prime.

I'm speaking only of the 18-50mm zoom. Have no experience with the other zoom or the Red primes.

When I throw on a ziess standard I remember how a 35mm lens is supposed to behave.

I love this camera. It makes pretty, eye-watering images. But if your going to sell your camera as a cine camera, you have to design it as such at every level. Who cares how great the glass looks if you have jerky focus pulls and your camera shakes when ever the assistant pulls focus because the barrel's so sticky.

I'm pulling focus with the Red in NC and the battery mount has just gone bad (we think) because it's made of cheap plastic and uses V-mounts instead of the anton bauer style. The camera has begun shutting down at the slightest shutter of the battery. We are forced to tape and ziptie the battery in place to avoid this. Battery changes now take two to three minutes.

Red has been kind enought to send us a new set of batteries and a new mount, as well as a new charger (it appears the terminals on the batteries have been damaged do to play in the connection or something). But it just seems like in the rush to get 4k on the market red has cut a lot of corners on the accessories. There's nothing different about the fresh mount being sent, as far as I know, so how am I to keep the same damage from occurring to the new mount. We're shooting a racing move, for crying out lound. The camera bumping and shaking quite a bit.

On a more posative note, I'm really getting into the myriad rigging options I have with red. And it does make sexy, sexy pictures. I might need a towel. Shooting a 2.35:1, so lovely.
 
PaulClements said:
Odd thread... So some people are upset that they didn't get an email about some information that they seem to have discovered regardless?

It's one thing being pissed that you have to wait a bit longer for your camera but given you're getting more bang for your buck I wouldn't beat that drum too hard. I'm all for complaining about something when the result is that whatever the issue is gets changed for the better, but it seems in this case that it's the opposite.

Paul
Click to expand...

Very good point.
 
number6 said:
Skipdivils... your post was well thought out and gracious. I only point out this one segment to ask "Is it not also the right of people to complain about the complainers?"
Click to expand...

hahaha. that is good. made me laugh out loud for sure. thanks.
 
My complaint is a pattern of lack of communication directly to reservation holders. Specific questions have been going unanswered for a long time. And now a snap change at the last minute that I would not have heard about if I didn't happen to come on the boards yesterday.

I'm happy for the new features. I'm unhappy that those of us next in line are going without information up to days before shipping, and then having things changed still without clear communication. I don't have time to sit on reduser waiting for news. If I'm next in line, I need real info directly from the source.

But... email sent, I'm sure RED gets the message. They're working they're asses off creating a revolutionary product, not to mention the fires, so I can cut them some slack.

Just the fact that I've been heard is part of what makes RED revolutionary.
 
DorkmanScott said:
Then you don't see my point at all.

Given how open the dev team is, I'm always surprised when something as simple as "please send an e-mail" gets met with defensiveness and even hostility. I thought they wanted to hear what could make our experience as Redusers better. Sure, we didn't pay for the whole camera up front, but then again we're not asking for personal phone calls from Jim every time something changes. Just a mass-email through a system that, by all appearances, already exists for that very purpose.

Now, Jim says that he sent such an e-mail, and I believe him. It must have gotten lost, though, since no one saw it, which is a problem worth fixing and wouldn't have been noticed if Trevor hadn't brought it up. And granted I'm no billionaire business genius, but it seems to me that "I sent an e-mail" should be the first and perhaps only thing necessary to say, instead of getting defensive and offering a refund. If we wanted a refund, we'd ask. What we want is the camera because we believe in it, and in Jim.

As pointed out above, the fact that RED is still improving the camera in the face of a fiery apocalypse says a lot about the company and their commitment to the customers. I'm not saying anything to the contrary, and in such a situation it's probably more than forgivable for someone like Jim to get terse when he is, in all fact, doing something beneficial for us and letting us know.

But the openness and honesty goes both ways in this process. RED keeps telling us we have to get used to it, and we do, but so do they. Neither side can have thin skin about these things. If there's a problem, RED tells us. If we're unhappy, we tell RED. If we're unhappy beyond repair, we'll ask for a refund. The fact that people are honestly expressing their frustration, at least when done so in a reasonable respectful manner, I only see as a good thing for the future of the relationship between RED and its customers. It will help RED stay in touch with the user base and avoid becoming another out-of-touch corporate entity, the likes of which these forums do so love to malign.

Again, this push-back doesn't affect me that much. I was expecting another slide, and this makes it more likely that I'll be able to buy my RED with a production budget on a film that will be down the tubes by the time the camera's ready, instead of my own pocket. I'm actually happy for the delay, in that regard. So I'm not "complaining" and I don't want it to sound that way.

We're all in this together, so let's try to both sides keep learning how a "revolution" like this works. There's no need to get defensive or offended. That's all I'm saying.
Click to expand...

DorkmanScott,

I do see your point, but what I said was to a certain degree only.

I even posted again immediately afterwards as shown here where I said that essentially a combination email/forum solution might be best for communication and for everyone, although for me this was not required. In other words, I agree that email would help, which is the gist of your post.

However, Trevor's post was not just "please send me an email". It was I'm Pissed. And that there was some suggestion of lost opportunities because of scheduling a camera that is not even widely available yet. When Jim posted his response, even his post was questioned as possibly a little too strong. And I cannot wonder myself about Trevor's?

Finally, I am not attacking anyone. But here is where I don't understand:

Trevor Meier said:
But anybody trying to do real work is getting shafted by RED's lack of communication.
Click to expand...

As we've already established, there is NOT a lack of communication, just how and where to obtain it that is under question.

Gibby and Evin are working professionals. They visit the forums. Are they not doing "real work" as Trevor implies because they have time to visit the Red forums?

We all work too you know. I was not able to post again and read until now in fact because of work.

In summary, I believe email announcements for major changes should help. But cut me some slack too, how did all these people who've reserved Red find out about Red in the first place? At some point or another, from visiting first DVXUser then RedUser. It's not that hard.
 
Trevor Meier said:
I'm unhappy that those of us next in line are going without information up to days before shipping, and then having things changed still without clear communication. I don't have time to sit on reduser waiting for news.
Click to expand...

Jim says he emailed reservation holders S/N 101-200 with this news within 10 minutes of taking the decision, and then he posted it here. It is true that email is increasingly unreliable these days, when almost 90% of all email is spam. http://spamlinks.net/stats.htm#received-big-pc

I am just wondering, if you did not get the email, is that something within Red's control?

For myself, I have added this link ("Find Jim Jannard's posts") to my bookmarks: http://www.reduser.net/forum/search.php?do=finduser&u=9

I find this works very well, and it is no slower than checking my email.
 
Trevor Meier said:
My complaint is a pattern of lack of communication directly to reservation holders. Specific questions have been going unanswered for a long time. And now a snap change at the last minute that I would not have heard about if I didn't happen to come on the boards yesterday.

I'm happy for the new features. I'm unhappy that those of us next in line are going without information up to days before shipping, and then having things changed still without clear communication. I don't have time to sit on reduser waiting for news. If I'm next in line, I need real info directly from the source.

But... email sent, I'm sure RED gets the message. They're working they're asses off creating a revolutionary product, not to mention the fires, so I can cut them some slack.

Just the fact that I've been heard is part of what makes RED revolutionary.
Click to expand...

Trevor,

I think overall your post was a good thing in the long run as we learn more about this new process.

Overall, I think we'd all like our cameras. I am going to bet that once we receive them, we will forget threads like this.

Anyway, hope you guys at Red stay on course. Despite the fires outside and on these forums :tongue:
 
Jim,

We all agree that you are doing an incredible thing, and a great job!!! I haven't had any issues as of yet, though I would like my camera asap ... I haven't had clients waiting for it because of your motto ... I'll get the camera, and be thrilled, when it comes. I'm just trying to translate what I think some of the people on the boards are saying. I wonder if RED has thought of any better modes of communication, or if there is perhaps some other reason why so many people talk about not getting the email from RED.

Maybe a sticky post that people can bookmark that has a biweekly or weekly update or something. I don't claim to have the solution, I'm just a lowly filmmaker, but it does seem some people want what is already great communication to be fabulous.

I'm dealing with the fires as well, so I know what you are going through. It's F@#$ing crazy around here. Thank god the weather today is more temperate.

Best ... and thanks,

Gabe
 
Honestly...

I'd rather have Jim & Co. spend their time perfecting the camera than sending emails.

-Thor
 
STICKY is the way to go.
Do we have already one under announcements?

And I mean any announcements, upgrades, changes, new things etc.

Quick check and here it is:
http://www.red.com/en_US/pages/production_hold
Was posted 25-th I think Asian time, as far as I know where the web is maintained, so yesterday evening.

Again, repeat of this in the Sticky here will be appreciated

BTW did you put your name here?
http://www.red.com/email_announcements
 
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