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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Grain Issues on Epic

DL Fitch said:
One answer that has been given is that because the R1 uses lower bit-rates, more noise is lost as data gets compressed. I don't buy this explanation, at least not entirely, but it would be interesting to do the comparisons at 8:1 or 9:1 to even things a bit. If the Epic only becomes noisy at the lower compression ratios, then you would assume the end result - post noise-reduction - will be much cleaner than the R1 MX.
Click to expand...

If that was the case, then yeah, higher compression rates on the epic (lower bit-rate) should yield cleaner blacks....the opposite happens. I don't know....The RED One has a distinct look, not just cleaner blacks. I personally like it, but honestly, I can get clean blacks with my Scarlet no probs and would never trade it for a RED One.
 
Something must be happening to those files during upload guys... I can open them just fine before uploading. Once up, I download and sure enough they are blank. Sorry :( I will try zipping them first.
 
Zip them first.

Nick Pujic said:
Something must be happening to those files during upload guys... I can open them just fine before uploading. Once up, I download and sure enough they are blank. Sorry :( I will try zipping them first.
Click to expand...
 
The Epic picture is much nicer compared to the FS700 above. Nicer highlights contrast and detail. The Epic needs a good DOP to get the most out of it- it's not a camera you just pick up and shoot like a videographer. The Epic is not great with simply low ambient and some practicals lighting but its incredible when properly lit. If it's graining in the darks then re-light the scene- it's not far off a 35mm film characteristics (ie: loves light). In my opinion the 5k downscaled to 2k is the best image out of the Epic
 
Hi Ali, just trying to learn man. Thanks.
 
Hey Nick,

It looks totally normal, just under exposed. The grain texture is perfectly natural, even when ISO is totally pushed to 12800.

Thanks for sharing.
 
Nick Pujic said:
Hi guys...hoping someone could help shed some light on why I'm getting really bad grain and color artifacts.

Are there any tricks to getting rid of grain other than black shading? I shot an interview with the Epic and an FS700 tonight using one softbox and a black BG. I black shaded after the camera was on for a good 30 minutes...twice. The noise indicator was to the max after both shadings. The footage on the FS700 with a Zeiss 2.8 lens looked amazing, also at ISO 800.

The Epic was set up as follows:
-Using a Canon L 2.8 lens, wide open
-ISO 800 - 1250 (noise only got worse and worse as iso went up).
-30fps / 20.97 project timebase
- 1/60 shutter

As soon as I try to brighten the image the noise just gets worse.

I'm wondering two things.
1) Why was my noise meter to the roof after black shading at operating temp with all current settings and
2) Why does the FS700 footage look so much better using the same ISO and the same speed lens?

I know more light is always a way to help, but with the Sony doing wonders without any additional light in the exact same situation, why would the Epic need more? Shouldn't it need less?

I've attached frame exports from both cameras for comparison.
Any insight or advice would be much appreciated.

Thank you,

Nick
Click to expand...

Hi Nick,
your shot seems a bit under exposed.
I also noticed ,on the R3D you did post, that the saturation level was at +2!! Me think it is too much, if you want colors in your frame pull down your black level for a start.
Now having said that, if you want to compare your Epic capacity in low light condition with another camera,
maybe it should be fair to use the same framing for a start.
On the sample you did post below and by watching the R3D you join for download, I'm not convince by what you are saying;
The sample from the S... camera seems full of brightness with a signal overboost, if I aply the same receipe to your R3D I'm sure I can claim your Epic is as good as your other camera.

FROM THE R3D- RIGHT CLICK FOR FULL FRAME
attachment.php


Another one, just did a dirty mask on the eyes and you have still informations there even under exposed, try to do that with your S... caméra Nick. ;-)

FROM THE R3D- RIGHT CLICK FOR FULL FRAME
attachment.php


Just my two cents.
Best
B.
 
Matthew Scott said:
This is completely true. RED will never (as far as I can tell) agree to that....but hey. It's good to know.
Click to expand...

Take a look at my test from 2011. RED ONE looks "cleaner" due to higher compression ratio. End of story.


1:1 CROPS of blue channel

RED ONE M-X RC8:1, ISO 800, 5600k
R1_M_X.png


RED EPIC-M RC4:1, ISO 800, 5600k
EPIC_M.png
 
Roger / Brice thank you both so much! Next time either of you are in Canada....the cold beer is on me!
Much appreciated and lesson learned on my end.

Most of all I'm glad that the camera works as designed. I'll adapt to it :)
Cheers guys,

Nick
 
Hi man,

we are always getting heavy grain on SCARLET and EPIC at ISO 800 regardless of BLACK SHADING....
Definitely, RED is advertising native ISO of MX sensors as 800, but it's definitely much less than that!
Try on 320 and 400 you will be amazed by clarity of the video......
 
Hvala puno Slobodan :)
 
Slobodan Milivojevic said:
Hi man,

we are always getting heavy grain on SCARLET and EPIC at ISO 800 regardless of BLACK SHADING....
Definitely, RED is advertising native ISO of MX sensors as 800, but it's definitely much less than that!
Try on 320 and 400 you will be amazed by clarity of the video......
Click to expand...


I don't have grain problem before 1600 asa (wich is still a nice grain, it becomes ugly at 3200+). Do you debayer Full quality?

Pat
 
Nick Pujic said:
Most of all I'm glad that the camera works as designed. I'll adapt to it :)
Cheers guys,
Nick
Click to expand...
Like every cameras and tools, you always have to adapt to it.
So nothing particular or different for the Red cameras in general.
Cheers
B.
 
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