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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Grading RED footage...

Jannard

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This info has probably gotten lost somewhere in the archives, although I have posted it more than once. This example uses RED Alert! but also applies to other grading programs. It assumes a high range scene and working in REC 709 (for this example) and you have set the White Balance. The examples below are not designed to be pretty... it was to show RED ONE footage in the most difficult situation. Make your subject the darkest object in an extremely high range scene... and hold tone everywhere.

1. Expose footage properly (another discussion for Build 15 and easy with Build 16).

2. Open your file in RED Alert! and reference your histogram while you get all important highlight info inside the right edge with the Exposure Control (in case you missed slightly). If you missed a lot, you will quickly run into trouble down the road. Which means your footage will either be noisy or your highlights will be clipped. The more you missed it, the more trouble you will have.

3. Use the Curve Control to make the image look right. You can control almost everything right here. Leave the Black and White points (bottom left and top right) alone.

You DO NOT want to move, cut off, or throw away highlight info... at any point in the process with any application. If you do throw away highlight info, it should be a conscious decision.

Below are two examples from RED Alert!

The 1st is exactly what I described for Build 15. Notice REC 709 is selected as the Output LUT/Gamma. Also notice that Chroma Denoise is OFF.

The 2nd example is the same file but opened in REDspace instead of REC 709. You will see that they look is virtually identical, but no curves were added. Build 16 RED Alert! adds REDspace (as does your camera) and still maintains all the other Output LUT options.

The final example (shown on another Recon thread "9.5 Stops") is a "very mildly adjusted" image from the same file. I incident metered the scene with a Sekonic Cine. Both the bright and shadow areas were very evenly lit so the metering was accurate. T32 outside (at ISO 400) and T1.7 for the heavily shaded doorway.

Tungsten lighting will never yield as good of results as Daylight. The sensor is Daylight balanced. If I shoot tungsten, I still work with a daylight setting in RED Alert! and correct later. Low light will also not yield as good of range. But you knew that.

Jim

9_9.5stopsra709.jpg


9_9.5stopsra.jpg
 
Thank you for info. "Also notice that Chroma Denoise is OFF." - why is that?
 
Jim, what is the function of Chroma De-noise in a case of missed exposure? I guess what I'm really asking is, when and why should we use it?

It is as it sounds... it is a Graeme special. It reduces chroma (color) noise if you need it. There are a few levels depending on the severity. It is always best never to use it because you pay a price. But if you have footage that needs it, it will be your best friend.

I can't stress enough how important it is to nail the exposure. Noisy footage and limited range starts here (missed exposure).

Jim
 
I can't stress enough how important it is to nail the exposure. .

Jim

If you guys read that and are starting to get worried.. I dont blame you. Using just the monitor and even the meters on build 15, it took a bit of learning to know exaclty what your shadows, mid-greys and highlight clip points were, and sometimes the monitor could trick you.

The good news, is in Build 16, the meters, viewing options and monitor paths all have finally been synced up, plus there are a few extra surprises in there to make your life even easier if need be.
 
Some more good news... if you have been disappointed in your footage, you can always go back and regrade the RAW. You might be surprised what you have.

Jim
 
If you guys read that and are starting to get worried.. I dont blame you...

...The good news, is in Build 16, the meters, viewing options and monitor paths all have finally been synced up, plus there are a few extra surprises in there to make your life even easier if need be.

phew... good to hear :)
 
jim,

i would like ... but i have no camera (#20xx), but i believe you
 
Some more good news... if you have been disappointed in your footage, you can always go back and regrade the RAW. You might be surprised what you have.

Jim

And dont feel bad if you do botch it at first.... even some of the big boys with the big guns have missed it the first time around.

When you have a million dollar shot ( or even a $5 shot that was just perfect) that you think is gone because of a bad grade, but then you go back and make a recovery from the R3D file, You really start to appreciate the value of RAW.. We see it almost every day.
 
I incident metered the scene with a Sekonic Cine. Both the bright and shadow areas were very evenly lit so the metering was accurate. T32 outside (at ISO 400) and T1.7 for the heavily shaded doorway.

Hummm... could you shoot something like this again and take spot meter readings instead? I think thats a far more accurate way of determining just how many stops difference there was in contrast. Incident readings really aren't the best way to do business, at least thats what Ansel Adam's believed, and in my own practice of metering, I've come to agree with his view. I actually think you might have more than 9.5 stops difference there to be honest, but only spot metering will really tell...

Thanks for the tease, I'll be shooting my first Red test on build 15 this Tuesday :)
 
I have metered (spot and incident) for longer than I wish to remember. In very even lighting, I am comfortable with the numbers. And I have checked this meter for accuracy. But this really was not about being 9, 9.5 or 10 stops to show the limit of RED DNR. It was a response to customers that are only getting 6-8 stops... which I wanted to show is a grading issue. Maybe when I have more than 5 minutes for a real test...

Jim
 
The Sekonic Cine actually has a contrast function in stops using the incident meter rather than using the spot function ( it actually doesnt even work in spot) .. you should give it a try Chris. It gives you a pretty accurate difference reading in stops between two light sources that works amazingly well.
 
The Sekonic Cine actually has a contrast function in stops using the incident meter rather than using the spot function ( it actually doesnt even work in spot) .. you should give it a try Chris. It gives you a pretty accurate difference reading in stops between two light sources that works amazingly well.

Not to go off topic Jared, but have you calibrated the Sekonic to the RED?
 
Thanks, I'm not ragging on you guys or anything, just voicing my opinion on determining reflective contrast. I actually own the Sekonic Cine meter (love it!).

Did you set your exposure based on the incident reading outside or via the new monitoring tools in cam?
 
It was a response to customers that are only getting 6-8 stops... which I wanted to show is a grading issue. Maybe when I have more than 5 minutes for a real test...
Jim

:whistling:
Thanks to going to all the effort to clear this up, it is massively appreciated.
I think I have some research to do about proper grading technique for red raw footage. This camera is truly a learning experience... and a good one at that.
 
Not to go off topic Jared, but have you calibrated the Sekonic to the RED?

I started to make a profile with mine but half way through the meter went bezerk, ( I think it has a crush on Jim cause now it only works when Jim touches it). Anyways, the good thing is we got a little fleet of them in last week, and Graeme has one now, so we should have one soon after we get the more important things out of the way.
 
Thanks, I'm not ragging on you guys or anything, just voicing my opinion on determining reflective contrast. I actually own the Sekonic Cine meter (love it!).

Did you set your exposure based on the incident reading outside or via the new monitoring tools in cam?

I noted the bright and shadow areas to measure the range of the scene but set exposure from the camera tools.

Jim
 
Cool. Are the new metering tools based off of the linear response now?

I actually plan on shooting more less a similar test like this on Tuesday with build 15. I'm really curious about how my personal ISO rating technique will come out (I'll be playing with all kind of possibilities, not just my obsession with fiddling around at ISO 100). It should be really fun, I'll be sure to post my experiences.

One thing that just entered my mind... This build has changed the compression approach right?
 
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