GPS tracking in cameras.

[Jason beaumont]

I was just on facebook and saw another "my camera got stolen" horror post. I was just curious if anyone knows why after all these years they haven't put some type of tracker into the cameras? they have reliable gps's the size of a quarter that require almost no power. Why hasn't this been implemented yet, Not a third party company or anything. I would figure by now something so inexpensive and small would be standard in our 30-$50,000 cameras. Even if it was an upgradeable option , I feel like a lot of people would get it just for piece of mind. Thoughts?

 

[Karim D. Ghantous]

That is a splendid idea and the people who are actually engineering these cameras really should be thinking about these problems. No, there are no guarantees, but even an improvement of 10% on recovery is better than nothing.

I remember once I suggested that cameras should have encrypted image output that the owner can decrypt later. I posted this idea on a photographic forum and, typically, the idea was rejected because you could just claim insurance. Which misses the point, of course. I don't want thieves taking my stuff and keeping it.

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

Guessing it would:
- Propagate irresponsibility towards gear,
- Require inner power management re-design to power the GPS 24/7
- Increase cost
- Bomb customer service
- Require yearly subscription to finance the support

While not avoiding theft.

This was a topic here since R1.

If you made cameras...would you expand your focus from making cameras and accept this additional responsibility on your shoulders ?

 

[L. Langer]

Because this comes up every so often, I looked at every single possible solution and found nothing that would work out of the box in the way that people are wanting. The closest you could get to that would be using the RED software offerings as backdoor asset trackers, which would log and send camera information and IP addresses to RED, which would be a logistical PITA for RED to implement and deal with, not to mention the privacy line that crosses. Another alternative would be to simply build RFID tags into the cameras and other gear, so it could be identified easily by law enforcement, with RFID readers, which are coincidentally very expensive and not likely to be used by them. There's just no one-size-fits-all solution that works in the way people are wanting.

 

[Jason beaumont]

- I doubt it
- it doesn't need to be powered 24/7
- who cares
- yearly subscription sounds great.


I don't know how people spend $30,000 on a camera and complain about spending a couple extra thousand. RED is really really good and making innovative products, I have no doubt in my mind they could engineer and implement this. My friends dog has a gps chip on his collar and its the size of a marble.

Guessing it would:
- Propagate irresponsibility towards gear,
- Require inner power management re-design to power the GPS 24/7
- Increase cost
- Bomb customer service
- Require yearly subscription to finance the support

While not avoiding theft.

This was a topic here since R1.

If you made cameras...would you expand your focus from making cameras and accept this additional responsibility on your shoulders ?

 

[L. Langer]

Implementing mobile network communications hardware like a typical consumer-grade pet tracker uses would require RED to sign agreements with global telecom providers for access and invest in various infrastructure requirements to offer that service. Obviously, it would also require them to deal with various governing bodies that regulate mobile devices, to obtain communications certifications for use in many countries. In other words, a lot of work and money. RED would have to pass on costs to the purchasers as a "continuous service". For rental industry products like RED RANGER, I can see it possibly happening, if there is enough interest, but probably not the other stuff.

 

[Donald MJ Anderson]

Cars cost magnitudes higher than red cams and dont come with tracking.

 

[Karim D. Ghantous]

There's just no one-size-fits-all solution that works in the way people are wanting.

I find that this is true for most things. Mass production can't work if you insist on finely tuning every detail.

I don't know how people spend $30,000 on a camera and complain about spending a couple extra thousand.

Well put. If internal GPS is a stupid idea there are more stupid ideas that people subscribe to without thinking. And GPS doesn't cost three figures. My friend has an old Nokia N73 and the GPS still works on the damned thing. Almost as impressive as the 8mm wind-up camera I have from the 1930s which still works to this day. (Maybe I should do a review...) Some cheap Android phones have GPS as well. I am guessing that those manufacturers are representing their products honestly.

Cars cost magnitudes higher than red cams and dont come with tracking.

My friend, I am the harbinger of good news!

https://gpspathfinder.com/2018/05/23/cars-with-built-in-gps-tracker/

 

[Björn Benckert]

My solution was this.

-Bought one 90Wh Blueshape battery and one extra plastic casing for a 190Wh blueshape battery of the same kind.

-Then combining the bigger shell with the smaller cell. The extra room created inside the battery was enough to fit an old iPhone and a 12V to usb converter + a iPhone charger cable.

-I then soldered the downconverter to the Plus / Minus on the inside of the battery and put the phone and charger cable in there... some hot glue and screw it all together.

- The phone had a prepaid contract in it and set to auto start when charged.

So when this rigged battery was charged I could see it on find my iPhone. All worked great. But then my daily driver phone broke on a trip... so had to take the whole thing apart again to use this spare phone. So now I got no tracker in my gear any more.

 

[John Brennick]

My solution was this.

-Bought one 90Wh Blueshape battery and one extra plastic casing for a 190Wh blueshape battery of the same kind.

-Then combining the bigger shell with the smaller cell. The extra room created inside the battery was enough to fit an old iPhone and a 12V to usb converter + a iPhone charger cable.

-I then soldered the downconverter to the Plus / Minus on the inside of the battery and put the phone and charger cable in there... some hot glue and screw it all together.

- The phone had a prepaid contract in it and set to auto start when charged.

So when this rigged battery was charged I could see it on find my iPhone. All worked great. But then my daily driver phone broke on a trip... so had to take the whole thing apart again to use this spare phone. So now I got no tracker in my gear any more.

Brilliant!

 

[Donald MJ Anderson]

My friend, I am the harbinger of good news!

https://gpspathfinder.com/2018/05/23/cars-with-built-in-gps-tracker/

Hmmm, Like most car thieves, Ill skip the Hyundai elantra and fiat 500.

I should have said Cars cost magnitudes higher than red cams and nearly every single one doesnt come with tracking.

Why not buy insurance instead of a GPS unit where the good ones need a subscription? GPS does not guarantee you get either your vehicle or camera back. Your cam is still gone. Maybe it gets tracked. Maybe the tracker works long enough. I asked my insurance company a few years ago what discount I`d get for adding a good GPS tracker to a car. They said nothing. They dont think they are reliable.

 

[Alex Kiritz]

Within the past month or so Jarred commented on a post on facebook explaining that they looked into it many years ago and why they decided against it.

 

[Christopher A. Bell]

Hmmm, Like most car thieves, Ill skip the Hyundai elantra and fiat 500.

I should have said Cars cost magnitudes higher than red cams and nearly every single one doesnt come with tracking.

Why not buy insurance instead of a GPS unit where the good ones need a subscription? GPS does not guarantee you get either your vehicle or camera back. Your cam is still gone. Maybe it gets tracked. Maybe the tracker works long enough. I asked my insurance company a few years ago what discount I`d get for adding a good GPS tracker to a car. They said nothing. They dont think they are reliable.

I’m not sure you’re using “magnitude” correctly, unless you’re buying super-exotics. You can easily find a nice new car for less than a Monstro(just the body). You can even find new cars for less than a Helium body(and definitely after you add what it’s going to take to make it shootable). Get down into used cars and even the cost of a Gemini could get you a nice vehicle. A lot of vehicles come from the factory with tracking, like On-Star(the newer systems even have the ability to remotely shut the vehicle down). And you can have third party solutions installed for just a few hundred dollars with service around $100/year(that includes other services besides tracking). As far as your insurance company, they’re probably just downplaying the effectiveness, because they don’t want to give discounts. While slightly different than just a GPS tracker, LoJack touts a 96% recovery rate.

This is something we’ve all been talking about for years, since when we all used to run around with $50K-$75K ENG cameras on our shoulder. While I’ve never had one of my personal cameras stolen(knock on wood), I have been involved with a theft situation where the camera was stolen in-transit back to the rental house. I’m sure they(or the network I was shooting for) would have gladly paid a few hundred dollars for a tracking device and ~$100/year for a tracking service to get the $100K body back.

You could probably get away without true GPS tracking in urban environments . Just look at the Tile trackers(and similar). They’re small enough to go on your key ring and the tiny button cell battery in it powers it for ~ a year. With the advancements in technology, I think if a company really wanted to make camera tracking solutions happen, they could.

And as someone who has had gear stolen, it’s not as simple as “it’s covered by insurance”. You have to look at the time your are going to be without the gear, making the claim, getting paid for the claim, actually replacing the gear, somethings that are not easy to replace/have to wait for them to be built and even things that can no longer be replaced. I’ve always found it odd some people’s cavalier attitude towards expensive equipment and the care for it.

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

This is something we’ve all been talking about for years, since when we all used to run around with $50K-$75K ENG cameras on our shoulder. While I’ve never had one of my personal cameras stolen(knock on wood), I have been involved with a theft situation where the camera was stolen in-transit back to the rental house. I’m sure they(or the network I was shooting for) would have gladly paid a few hundred dollars for a tracking device and ~$100/year for a tracking service to get the $100K body back.

Yet the number of camera makers who are incorporating that feature and service (and by that accepting other's problems as their own, problems which involve criminal matters and back and forth legal issues) - for 100$ - or any figure per year:

= 0

 

[Karim D. Ghantous]

Yet the number of camera makers who are incorporating that feature and service (and by that accepting other's problems as their own, problems which involve criminal matters and back and forth legal issues) - for 100$ - or any figure per year:

= 0

Not an argument.

 

[Donald MJ Anderson]

Not an argument.

I`d say zero manufacturers doing it is an argument. Imagine how small the demand is - YOU may want it, but if nobody is supplying it, it means the demand is not there OR the tech is not there. And I have two tile "pro" and a GPS vehicle tracker, I wouldn`t use them to secure anything I care about. GPS, unreliable. Easily blocked. Tile pro is a toy. Would not secure anything of value with it.

Insurance is the ONLY real protection.

The car thing is correct - almost zero manufacturers bother to add it. Cars cost the same as monstros, AND many many times more. Yes, exotics. Lambos dont come with gps. I fitted a gps tracker to mine. Good model but unreliable. Good for entertainment/journey logging ONLY. If my car was stolen I would NOT high five the cop and tell them I have GPS installed. Do not rely on it. If you want reliable you pay big bucks, and reliability is not small in size/will not fit cameras.

If you want false peace of mind, use tile or something similar. GPS will also offer that fabulous false sense of security too. I guess that is part of the problem, do manufactures want to deal with THAT type of problem? My camera is stolen, but your tracking tech failed. Imagine the complaints!

 

[Karim D. Ghantous]

I’ve always found it odd some people’s cavalier attitude towards expensive equipment and the care for it.

All I can do is shrug. ;-)

I`d say zero manufacturers doing it is an argument.

An argument must contain reason. For example, let's take photographic varifocal zooms with sliding apertures (which I don't like). They are an optical disappointment. But, let me play both sides. I'll give you a non-argument to support their existence:

A: Every single manufacturer makes them, ergo, my objection cannot stand.

And now, here is an argument to support their existence:

B: In order to make a compact, reasonably priced zoom lens, a manufacturer does not make such a lens either parfocal or with a constant aperture. Photographers can get by with this compromise, because they can use their camera's TTL meter as the aperture changes, and their camera's AF system will keep up with the shift in focus as focal length changes. Further, today's fully electronically controlled lenses allow one to transform the sliding aperture into a constant one very easily, by setting on the short end the widest possible aperture on the long end.

It is obvious that A. is not an argument, and therefore is not philosophy, and can be dismissed. B. is an argument, because reasons are given, and claims are made which can be tested. I even sympathise with B., although I am very disappointed that lens manufacturers, particularly Leica, do not strive for a minimum standard at all times. Filter threads also suck but that's another discussion again.

But let's get back to GPS trackers. So far, I haven't seen a single argument as to why we either don't need them or why manufacturers should not install them. Insurers don't give you discounts for installing them, but so what of it? Some health insurers do give discounts for wellness programs:

https://www.bankrate.com/finance/insurance/wellness-programs-lower-insurance-premiums-1.aspx

Now, that's an example of a valid challenge. If health insurers give you a discount, and equipment insurers don't, then isn't that worth a thought? Yes. Yes, it is. It's a question that is valid. Is it an argument? No, but it's the beginning of one. And it may yield a good argument. But assertions are not arguments.

There's a reason why maths teachers always tell you to show your working. Giving an answer to a problem is just an assertion. But if you show how you got there, you have an argument.

 

[Greg G]

I’m going to throw a Tile into my red case (hidden of course). It’s really inexpensive and better than nothing.

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

An argument must contain reason.

You missed it.

Yet the number of camera makers who are incorporating that feature and service

= > (and by that accepting other's problems as their own, problems which involve criminal matters and back and forth legal issues)


- for 100$ - or any figure per year:

= 0

GPS will also offer that fabulous false sense of security too. I guess that is part of the problem, do manufactures want to deal with THAT type of problem? My camera is stolen, but your tracking tech failed. Imagine the complaints!

 

[Donald MJ Anderson]

An argument must contain reason..

You missed it.

Reasons.