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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Good Red, Bad Red

Of the ~75 bodies i've worked with across roughly 200 production days, I've only ever had one camera truly die on set. It was in Dubai of all places, but I had a backup.

Now with that in mind, I've sent cameras to RED to be repaired roughly 25 times. I've seen a lot of power boards, CF modules and audio boards bite the dust. I've seen so many ridiculous random problems pop up (hardware and software) that I could write a book on it.

But in all of these adventures, two things have remained constant. First, no production time has ever been lost. I needed 4 minutes once... And that's it. A properly prepped camera package with an experienced tech and backups in place should always be a successful equation.

The second thing that has remained true is that RED will get shit done when there is a problem. Every one of those problems I've had was resolved. I've probably sent more cameras to RED than anybody else... And as much as I'm sure they hate me by now, they still get it done (even when it takes a little convincing :) ).
 
Only an anvil is more reliable than our Red; latest build 16.

Good shooting and best regards,

Leo
 
Brook Willard said:
Of the ~75 bodies i've worked with across roughly 200 production days, I've only ever had one camera truly die on set. It was in Dubai of all places, but I had a backup.

Now with that in mind, I've sent cameras to RED to be reapired roughly 25 times. I've seen a lot of power boards, CF modules and audio boards bite the dust. I've seen so many ridiculous random problems pop up (hardware and software) that I could write a book on it.
Click to expand...

Wait, you've seen 'lots' of power boards die and yet you count only one camera dying? Um, so if the CF module dies you can replace that (I have an extra CF component as part of my kit too). If audio dies you could always go separate recording, but if the power board, you are just SOL, i'm not sure any other definition of 'die' except being obliterated in a stunt.

Brook Willard said:
But in all of these adventures, two things have remained constant. First, no production time has ever been lost. I needed 4 minutes once... And that's it. A properly prepped camera package with an experienced tech and backups in place should always be a successful equation.
Click to expand...

This is some scary crap, I never have the luxury of a second Red on everything I've done and most of the things I rent my Red to.
 
This is one scarey thread,
Big T's & Brook's experience show Red is not up to the rigors of 'general' usage without failing and that when handling the camera you need to exhibit an electronic engineer's levels of care so as not to damage a 'delicate' piece of camera.
Sounds like the camera isn't robust, is sensitive to damage and tells me two things:
The camera has parts that are 'an accident waiting to happen' which means when exposed to 'general usage', the chance of failure is higher than usual commercial products. Second thing is I expect people who have a greater level of electronic & mechanical intuitition when handling this delicate beast have a lesser chance of failure. Stuff like.....
1. treating the camera the same you'd treat a personal computer without a case!
2. always walk up to it with your hands in your pocket chewing gum.
3. Understand a plug should be extracted at 90 degrees and not 45 degrees......and also has a locking device!
4, Cable restrain (tie) ALL cables.
4. Static discharge (like STD's) affects everyone touching the camera. If you can feel that discharge it's over 60K volts, Rubbing your arse on a lounge, walking over a synthetic surface and building up 200KV before picking up a drive, CF, EVF and discharging it thru the camera attached to the ac mains adapter ain't good handling!
5. Understand devices carrying DC/AC voltage over 5-10m cables have different earth potentials and connecting then can cause all sorts of fun, hum and damage.
6. When connecting/reconnecting cables & turning switches on/off there should be a wait in between.
7. Poor make/break contacts like the battery plate connector are a killer!

all I can think of a present....

Dave
 
All our problems have been because of not enough time to get the crew comfortable to the camera. Other than that, the camera has been to hell and back with no issues.
 
Gibby said:
Big T,

Sounds frustrating for sure...

I own several RED One cameras and I've been running Build 16 v3.2.5 since it was released on all of them - and there have been absolutely no operational issues whatsoever.

Sorry to hear you're having problems. It's curious that you would have issues with the three cameras that were upgraded to Build 16. That seems to be the common denominator. On Cam 2, there were some sub-standard battery plates in the first batches, so perhaps you have one of them. Beyond that, do you know for sure that cameras 2, 3, and 4 were all upgraded to Build 15 v2.2.8 as per RED's directions, prior to receiving the Build 16 upgrades? If they weren't perhaps that is what's causing them to go wonky. Just a thought...

Not saying your guys did anything wrong in the upgrades to Build 16, but it seems highly unusual to have problems with all three Build 16 upgraded cameras. From what I've been reading there have been scattered individual camera issues with B16, with most of those being the first B16 versions, but I don't remember hearing about someone having multiple problems with multiple newly-upgraded to B16 cameras - especially v3.2.5. You didn't mention in your post what version of B16 those cameras were running. If it's not v3.2.5 you might try upgrading one of the cameras to B16 3.2.5 and see if that solves its problems. If it does, load v3.2.5 on the others and check them out. Be sure to do the re-black shading on all of them. Again, this is all assuming that B15 v2.2.8 was loaded into them before they were upgraded to B16, as per RED's upgrade to B16 instructions.

Hope you get that figured out...good luck mate
Click to expand...

Thanks Steve,

Yes all done as per RED spec's. Our guys are very fussy.
All the cameras still shot images, images are all still good.
Just codec errors, FCP playback errors, Dead GPO ports... EVF's going down etc etc.. Thing is for the last 6 months, not a single fault, not a single problem. FCP post work flow was flawless. But now it jumps, stops and farts.. driving us nuts.

I so wish I stayed with 15.

I'n not to worried though, I'm trusting that RED will send me back a camera I once had.

oooh and my only advice to all the shooter out there. Have a couple or at least one back body sitting around on set.
Thats the only thing that saved us.

They are cheap enough.

thanks Steve.
 
This sounds like the perfect time to remind everyone that electronic cameras have failures...yes any cameras, Sony, Panasonic, Ikegami,Phillips/Grass Valley
etc.... expect it, Prepare for it.

Big T, it sucks you had multiple failures, Mr. Murphy is always lurking!

This is a great thread to let people know what could happen and prepare for it.

Jarrad,

Is there a "crash Kit" with spare boards available for sale?

Dave
 
We have 7 bodies in the shop and five more due here shortly. Most of our cameras have been working non-stop since arrival. Day-in, day-out, they are rock solid, with many hundreds of hours of footage to prove it.

That's not to say they're perfect. They're still electronic devices, with a few quirks and foibles. But nothing extraordinary, and most importantly, nothing that has ever caused a production delay - a blown Aux-232 port, a bad power board on an early model, the sketchy V-mounts which Jarred mentioned are now fixed... Post has also not been a problem, our biggest issue being education in the number of options available.
 
My RED has been rock solid so far.
It's just working. I cross my fingers every time it goes out on a rental day.
No complaints so far. Maybe that's why I'm not that much in the forum lately. I'm just working and having a blast.

Cheers
Tim
 
Well I say that's about that for this thread.

in short after reading all the posts that the RED CAMERA is quite solid over all.
I was the unfortunate one that had 3 out of 4 duds on one shoot.
needless to say, that 3 out of the 4 still recorded good pictures minus parts of the camera's were failing.

It's good to see that there's more good than bad.
Id have to say though, that there are some gremlins out there in RED land and we all run the risk of getting a dog!

But Lucky for all of us RED as a company give us outstanding service and support.

If they didn't have this amazing support program, id drop these things like a warm turd.

Thanks RED.
Look forward to the future with you.
 
it seems it's going to to take a year, but kodak and fuji are in deep d** d**. critical projects will NOT be shot on red for now. US tv spots are all 35mm film for the foreseeable future.
 
Just out of curiosity: Computer have sometimes software to check the hardware components. Would it be possible to write a software like this for Red one? Load it on the SD card and let it work over night?

Marc
 
Rock solid for #378 here.

Only issue seems to be the common one of boot hangs when things like LCD and RedDrive are attached - remove them and reboot and it never fails. Now I just boot the thing without anything attached, then wait until the side lights do their colour dance, then plug in the LCD. I plug in the RedDrive once it's up completely. Never fails when done in that order.

I think the other reason ours has never had any problems (touch wood) is that we ALWAYS accompany our camera on a shoot as DIT, so we set it up correctly each time, watch what gets plugged into the beast and generally make sure it gets treated as it should, without babying it.

Here's hoping our next three, arriving shortly with any luck, end up the same. My guess is they will as long as we treat them the same as our beloved little #378.... :)

HTH

Paul
 
Apparently the beach where I'm shooting has wifi. What a strange world we live in.

Shawn Nelson said:
Wait, you've seen 'lots' of power boards die and yet you count only one camera dying? Um, so if the CF module dies you can replace that (I have an extra CF component as part of my kit too). If audio dies you could always go separate recording, but if the power board, you are just SOL, i'm not sure any other definition of 'die' except being obliterated in a stunt.
Click to expand...

Most of these component failures I've listed are partial. A bad CF module will give compression errors, for example. A bad audio board [poorly named... it actually has the eSATA pathways on it] can result in internal faults. A bad power board can result in random powering down. A bad processor board can result in all sorts of unfortunate recording errors. A bad connectors board [also poorly named - it has no external connectors] can result in dead side record and function buttons. A bad fan will result in overheating. A bad drive will result in dropped frames.

This is not an all-inclusive or exclusive list... it's just a few examples of things I've seen bad hardware result in. Almost every time there's an issue, it can be related to a bad firmware install. But sometimes... it's something else.

Almost every failure I've had on set has been a gradual thing. The camera will start to misbehave with certain errors but not others. Sometimes it will be a replicable thing, sometimes it will be random. Sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you don't.

That said, many of the board replacements I've put cameras into haven't been a failure at all. In the beginning, RED would swap boards out in cameras just about every other week! They'd make some new change or new advancement [or they'd find some faulty piece of hardware] and they'd swap it out. Every time I brought a camera down to RED, it'd come back to me with a new board or two.


This is some scary crap, I never have the luxury of a second Red on everything I've done and most of the things I rent my Red to.
Click to expand...

And 98% of the time, you'll be fine. Even if an individual owner doesn't have a second body, it's always good to have a line on some local[ish] people who have backup cameras. If a Ninja's camera goes down, there are half a dozen cameras on standby. If a rental house's camera goes down, they'll have a bunch of replacements as well. If an individual's camera goes down, they ought to have a few phone numbers in their pocket.

If there's nobody local... it is what it is. I know you know the hell out of your camera and help is always just a phone call away.

david farland said:
This is one scarey thread,
Big T's & Brook's experience show Red is not up to the rigors of 'general' usage without failing and that when handling the camera you need to exhibit an electronic engineer's levels of care so as not to damage a 'delicate' piece of camera.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't say that in the least. Yes, you need to take care of the camera... but it is not a piece of fine china. It's a hunk of metal with circuit boards inside. It's tough as hell, but it can fail. This camera doesn't walk on water, but it's not a piece of junk that is downright unusable. Every production I've had the camera on has been nothing but thrilled with the result... and not a single one has ever fallen behind schedule as a result of the camera. If the shit hits the fan on a shoot, one of two things has gone wrong: either the camera technician doesn't know enough about how to keep the camera happy or the production is downright unlucky.

When it's hot, bring ice packs. When it's cold, bring a blanket. When it's dusty, keep your wits about you. When it's wet, bring a bag. When you're setting off squibs, put up some plexiglass. When you're blowing the camera up in a stunt car, have a second body. Regardless of the situation, always be prepared for the worst.

I've had the camera in gunfights, 150˚ blast furnaces, freezing weather, underwater, freefall at 180mph, the sahara desert, you name it. I've seen a camera not even blink in situations that would've turned a film camera's innards into a fine powder.

I've also seen the camera shit its brains out because somebody gave it a funny look. I've seen the camera drop more frames than it recorded while sitting on a tripod. The good comes with the bad. Sometimes I go home laughing, sometimes I go home and collapse.

A lot of it is luck. Sometimes it's luck that something won't just die... and sometimes it's luck that the camera owner has kept their camera up to spec.

[shrug]

Moral: have a tech who knows the camera, have backups in place and prepare for the worst. Don't hold the camera's hand unless it needs it.

If you think the camera isn't tough enough to deal with real life production... there's not much left to say.
 
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