Good news...

[Eryc Tramonn]

The problem is that, until very recently, the Red universe has been changing so rapidly that a book would be badly out of date by the time it was published.

Completely with you, Shawn. But, as even you suggest in your statement, the operating procedurals are becoming more dialed in. At this stage, if the guide were a work in progress, that would make the task of compiling one a much less daunting proposition.

In the end, it's not that I disagree with you guys, but the fact is, I've been in situations where it would have been handy. I'm simply saying I would like to be able to dispel misinformation and conjecture surrounding the camera with a verifiable source, as well as have a reference for operating parameters, definitions, et al. Obviously, the DIT on our last shoot could have benefitted from one also...and again, the promotional campaign we were shooting was being executed by the internal production arm of a major network. So what I'm saying is, "once the techs have made up their minds on something, their comments and attitudes can negatively impact the agency reps." In this case, it's hard to go back fighting to use the camera on the next gig after all the stuff that was bandied about the last time around.

We've discussed compiling a manual in the past, but it remains a point of contention because no one seems to have offered a solution. Whatever though, the camera wasn't necessarily generated to supply for that market anyway. Honestly, I don't care about saving the agency money, they can remain as wanton in their approach as always...and the more money circulating in the economy, the better.

 

[John Chater]

I dont think you can discount what Evin is saying. Its very important to get the bigger rental houses on board and they will if there is client pressure/demand. They have a tremendous influence in communicating information and guidance to a very large portion of the filmmaking community.

Red knows this. They have been tremendously successful at getting cameras into the bigger rental companies. Because of the Red One's egalitarian price a successful feature film or a well known DP using the camera, translates into great pr and hence a lot of sales.

Im still hoping to hear if the current Red 18-85mm zoom is able too mount on other Digital cameras like the F35, Phantom or D21? The one we tested didnt fit on a F35. Ive asked a few times about this and heard no response. The primes seem to have a similar body style so Im really curious.

Best
John
Chater Camera Inc
San Francisco

 

[roryhinds]

John why was the 18-85mm not able to mount onto a F35?

 

[John Chater]

Rory
Im told by the lens owner and an engineer at our company that the rounded design at the iris back end of the lens interfered with the Arri PL locking ears.
Not a huge issue but enough to require a slight modification.

John
Chater Camera Inc
San Francisco

 

[C.H.Haskell]

great news Jim, will place an order as soon as they are available. Cheers.

 

[Roxco]

as for RED... I trust its hard to "keep doing what you are doing" and then stopping to do the latter thing you requested... especially as a relatively young company... im more surprised nobody on here hasnt created the ULTIMATE RED USER GUIDE and made $ selling it... both in hard copy and Video... there are bits and pieces here and there... but I would think someone could get some ROI from a project like that...

also .. there IS a video on red.com called Mythbusters...

Here is the dilemma - speaking from NLE development experience:

The technology cycle time is too short to get a good ROI for the publisher/author. Just about the time your "book" comes out in print the latest Build or Codec will make the book dated. There are schools that will need manuals, but that will come later when the product cycle slows and the features stabilize.

I'm sure a few authors are already here listening and taking notes and hopefully we will see something soon from PeachPit or Focal Press, but those publications are not for the early adopters and will have a hard time selling to the established user base that is monitoring RED User weekly.

That's my take on it,

Rosco

P.S. There may be room for a private blog where the posts here are filtered so that the working DP stays up-to-date with a smaller time investment.

 

[Zack Birlew]

Okay, why not just do a yearly release? Ultimate REDUser Guide 2009, Ultimate REDUser Guide 2010 Edition, etc.

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

What we need is to be able to flag a post to moderators as "Best of Reduser".

 

[Eric S.]

How about a RED Wiki? Oversight by moderators, error detection and correction by fellow users. One main news page could be used to sequentially list all major announcements, replete with links to the posts here. We certainly have the userbase to make it happen.

 

[Joshua Brown]

Shoot, if you guys need a wiki, I can have one set up tonight. But I don't have any snazzy web address connected to red (aside from Digitalcinemastock.com which is on hold). If you want and there is enough people in it, I'll get it set up somewhere and we can link to it. Once red or reduser decides to come alongside it, we can port the database over to them.

Do we have anyone here with wiki experience? I can set it up, but I don't know how to run it.

-Josh

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

The Red wiki thing has been suggested many times. Tried before more than once. Ian Bloom had one that was starting to evolve in a good direction (redhax.net), but it's gone. I haven't asked him about it, but I'm guessing he just didn't have the time or desire to keep it going. Other than that, I don't know what to say... Start one, maybe it will take off, but for most, the best and current info is all here on the forums and only a simple google search away.

 

[Eryc Tramonn]

The Red wiki thing has been suggested many times. Tried before more than once. Ian Bloom had one that was starting to evolve in a good direction (redhax.net), but it's gone. I haven't asked him about it, but I'm guessing he just didn't have the time or desire to keep it going. Other than that, I don't know what to say... Start one, maybe it will take off, but for most, the best and current info is all here on the forums and only a simple google search away.

Although it appears to be the best we're going to get...when you're running the halls in the bowls of a network, wikis and Google searches aren't always the most convenient. And this is only compounded when execs are staring at you for answers off the cuff. And yeah, I know, we're never more than a few feet from a computer/iPhone/whatever, but sometimes being able to show something to someone on a page in a manual just carries a different weight. Again, just speaking from personal experience.

 

[Joshua Brown]

Although it appears to be the best we're going to get...when you're running the halls in the bowls of a network, wikis and Google searches aren't always the most convenient. And this is only compounded when execs are staring at you for answers off the cuff. And yeah, I know, we're never more than a few feet from a computer/iPhone/whatever, but sometimes being able to show something to someone on a page in a manual just carries a different weight. Again, just speaking from personal experience.

What about a printed wiki resource?! Hehe, I'm working on the site right now... and I broke down and got a snazzy domain name too to make it easy for you all to remember. But I'll link to it when it's ready to go. We'll need alot of community input to make it useful.

-Josh

 

[Eric S.]

The Red wiki thing has been suggested many times. Tried before more than once. Ian Bloom had one that was starting to evolve in a good direction (redhax.net), but it's gone. I haven't asked him about it, but I'm guessing he just didn't have the time or desire to keep it going. Other than that, I don't know what to say... Start one, maybe it will take off, but for most, the best and current info is all here on the forums and only a simple google search away.

Thanks for updating me on the wiki's torrid history here on Reduser, Jeff. I feel like I could now write a good thriller with it as my lead! :wink:

Perhaps, so as to avoid further "hijacking" of this thread, we could move a discussion about wikis to the topic I started in the Complaints section?

http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?p=392474

I will say that a wiki allows for faster and fuller topic-based learning than a message board. I feel ill-qualified to spearhead an initiative since I'm a relative newcomer here, but maybe I can try to round up a rag-tag band of guerrilla wiki-warriors to help our cause.

I'll check the other thread for further thoughts.

 

[Eryc Tramonn]

What about a printed wiki resource?! Hehe, I'm working on the site right now... and I broke down and got a snazzy domain name too to make it easy for you all to remember. But I'll link to it when it's ready to go. We'll need alot of community input to make it useful.

-Josh

Cool, Josh. Thanks.

 

[Mark Pedersen]

Although it appears to be the best we're going to get...when you're running the halls in the bowls of a network, wikis and Google searches aren't always the most convenient. And this is only compounded when execs are staring at you for answers off the cuff. And yeah, I know, we're never more than a few feet from a computer/iPhone/whatever, but sometimes being able to show something to someone on a page in a manual just carries a different weight. Again, just speaking from personal experience.

Agree with this. The key is having something that is easy to update, and can have nice sexy pictures as well as diagrams, tables, charts, whatever. I don't think a wiki will cut it.

What about a PDF based document that is easy to update, can be printed or emailed, etc. PDFs can also have live imbedded links in the document for easy access to more in-depth content, case studies, video clips, whatever?

We use PDFs for proposals all the time and they are the most common cross-platform format out there for creating compelling business documents and brochures.

I'd suggest a cool, visual marketing piece that outlines the features, benefits and specs, a system overview that provides full info on all accessories and lenses, and a separate technical/support manual for ACs, DPs and technical types. Similar to what Arri does, but more informative and less well...tight assed.

RED's product line and user community has reached the size where this has become a necessity IMHO. Just consider how many SKUs will be out there by the time all the flavors of Scarlet and Epic are on the market. Even those of us who log on practically every day can barely keep up with it, and have to fish around for information on Red User. Having a comprehensive, accurate official "go-to" resource would be tremendously helpful—especially if it is easy to email and use online, or printed and handed to that studio exec or an AC.

RED should support its user community with the tools they need to communicate to the rest of the production community with whom they work every day.

That's why I personally think this should be published by RED and updated whenever there is a new product added or revision to the builds, etc.

Granted, it's a publishing job, but something a single talented designer/writer could handle. One position, (maybe two) on the payroll and RED could help change hearts and minds....

M

 

[Eryc Tramonn]

Agree with this. The key is having something that is easy to update, and can have nice sexy pictures as well as diagrams, tables, charts, whatever. I don't think a wiki will cut it.

What about a PDF based document that is easy to update, can be printed or emailed, etc. PDFs can also have live imbedded links in the document for easy access to more in-depth content, case studies, video clips, whatever?

We use PDFs for proposals all the time and they are the most common cross-platform format out there for creating compelling business documents and brochures.

I'd suggest a cool, visual marketing piece that outlines the features, benefits and specs, a system overview that provides full info on all accessories and lenses, and a separate technical/support manual for ACs, DPs and technical types. Similar to what Arri does, but more informative and less well...tight assed.

RED's product line and user community has reached the size where this has become a necessity IMHO. Just consider how many SKUs will be out there by the time all the flavors of Scarlet and Epic are on the market. Even those of us who log on practically every day can barely keep up with it, and have to fish around for information on Red User. Having a comprehensive, accurate official "go-to" resource would be tremendously helpful—especially if it is easy to email and use online, or printed and handed to that studio exec or an AC.

RED should support its user community with the tools they need to communicate to the rest of the production community with whom they work every day.

That's why I personally think this should be published by RED and updated whenever there is a new product added or revision to the builds, etc.

Granted, it's a publishing job, but something a single talented designer/writer could handle. One position, (maybe two) on the payroll and RED could help change hearts and minds....

M

Amen, Mark. I think a comprehensive pdf is really the best of both worlds, as it is immediately update-able, searchable and quick to disseminate.

I've done this very job as a copywriter for some rather large companies, so I'm intimately aware of what it takes to get the job done...and it's not that much. It just needs to be placed into a competent person's hands (or two depending on the scale of the job). Obviously, RED has extensive white paper documentation outlining all their processes and design elements, so it would probably amount to more of an organizational challenge than one of authorship.

I feel like I'm hounding everyone for something that wlll take RED away from precious dev time, but in actuality, I don't think it will...or at least, it shouldn't. If RED's dev process is as organized as I imagine it is, there is really no reason we shouldn't already have something like this. However, if it is in complete disarray, and I don't see how it could be, (then again, as mentioned, I have worked for some rather large companies and you'd be surprised how ridiculous they can be) such an exercise could only serve to help rather than hinder their efforts.

My money is on us seeing something with the release of Scarlet and Epic.

 

[Roxco]

Amen, Mark. I think a comprehensive pdf is really the best of both worlds, as it is immediately update-able, searchable and quick to disseminate....

Obviously, RED has extensive white paper documentation outlining all their processes and design elements, so it would probably amount to more of an organizational challenge than one of authorship.

My money is on us seeing something with the release of Scarlet and Epic.

I'd prefer to see an outside person take this on as the workarounds and workflows that work best are not always the "approved/supported" ways.

The great thing about a strong user/developer community is the daily R&D into best practices that gets published here and in blogs and such are tested by others almost immediately. When build 29 comes out (a true lady is never older than 29) we will know within a few days about any bugs or benefits.

All of this should help Red grow/mature and hopefully there will be a plethora of Official Manuals and "Missing Manuals" (credit David Pogue) as well as online resources and tutorial videos. In a few years, you should be able to google college "film" schools for Red Tutorials & Tips. For now it is the Wild Wild West for Red so hang on and don't go into that Old Gold Mine without a beautiful young red haired lady at your side.

Thanks for reading,

Rosco

 

[Dane Brehm]

Looking forward to testing the shit out of those lenses.

 

[Corrado Silveri]

Second this. And a question: they will be delivered in quantity or there will be a (slow) production ramp, (as per the 18-85?).